suspension rubber springs

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Jono
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suspension rubber springs

Post by Jono »

My car is currently fitted with Minitastic springs and I would like to revert to original rubber.

The car is to be used for occasional road rallying and general back road fun :D

It is fitted with gas Spax and adjustable everything.

One of the problems I have with the Minitastic springs is the car feels unsettled and each wheel 'disconnected' (an anti roll bar may help but I don't want to go down that route). It also needs to sit high to keep the springs loaded so they don't pop out on a yump.

I hope that the rubber springs will enable me to get the ride height correct and more settled.

Simply question really - standard springs or red dot/whatever? Also who supplies the best price/quality ratio at present?

Thanks in anticipation.

Jon
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Spider
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by Spider »

You my have to try both to see what best suits your driving style and expectations.

For similar stuff to what you are setting up for, I run stock Valley Rubber Cones with Competition Hydro Front Bump Stops however the shocks, front & rears are custom ones I have made. The Hilos are also of a special design / shape that I developed over a few years to make the set up even more progressive than as was original. I find it soft enough to save the vehicle yet firm enough to make it very predictable and stop it from kissing the ground.

In rough terms, the Red Spots are about double the rate of the stock cones and all the coils I've ever looked at simply don't have nearly enough travel in them before they bind.
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by mab01uk »

The standard 'genuine' rubber cones from Minispares I find are good quality or they also do the uprated versions if you think your rally driving might need it:
http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... 0to%20shop

"The Real Genuine rubber cone spring, made correctly from Rover's only original tooling for the assembly line and spare parts sales, despite others' claims.
These are the only product available with correct ride height, bonding to metal, threaded top cup and metal ring made in the UK, for Mini Spares only.
Beware of all copies and old stock being offered anywhere for sale especially on ebay and websites. Genuine cones are precisely manufactured to certain technical specifications with the patent number stamped in the rubber. Anything without "patent number 763432" is not genuine.
The compact design & durability/quality of the rubber cone helped make the Mini the classic that it is today. Designed in the late 1950's it was ahead of it's time. The only problem is that some may still be driving around on cones that could have been built in the early 1960's with a UNF thread. They are now only Metric thread. The design is good, not ever lasting. The rubber not only gets very hard but it also sags and loses it's ability to hold the car upright. It is not uncommon to have a cone sag so badly that it lowers the car 2 or 3 inches and it handles terribly. Like all rubber products, they only have a certain shelf life and being fitted equates to the same. These might need replacing every 5-7 years depending on use and climate, but are usually good for at least 20,000 miles in the UK.
Measured at the wheel, the spring rates at the static load position are 118 lb/in at the front and 98 lb/in at the rear. With three passengers and 50 lb of luggage, the loads per wheel at the same position are respectively 468 lb and 355 lb.
These loads rise to 1,050 lb and 670 lb at full bump and fall to 240 lb and 100 lb when the rebound check is in operation."

Red Spot
"Competition rated rubber spring for use on all Road/ Rally Minis. Priced individually. Marked with a red spot on the metal base for identification.
The thick top plate has an internal metric thread for strength rather than a nut welded in place as per standard cone springs(MiniSpares design now copied by all).
These uprated springs do not feel much harder or give a harsher ride, but were specially developed specifically to give a more compliant and supple performance by way of careful re-arrangement of the spring rate. Basically, less body roll with a better working rubber cone that does not tail off as quick in spring rate under use . You will need hilos with these as they sit higher and although settle a little, adjustable suspension will be required. Beware of copies on the market as they do not perform the same and not manufactured in the same way.
These are manufactured by a company who are involed in Formula 1 and high profile motorsports rubber parts. Under use they get hot and ours retain more consistency than any other on the market as they are specially moulded. Keith Dodd fitted 2 on the front of his twin point car without any sagging or deterioration to date after over 10 thousand hard road miles.
If using these on 10" wheels with Hilos cut 3/4" off the end of the centre threaded bolt of the old type Hilo with a circlip as it will bottom out on the cone spring face and the car will sit high, for extremely lowered cars the hilo face will also need machining a few mm."
http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... |Back%20to

Yellow Spot
"These cone springs will require Hilo adjustable suspension as they sit higher than the originals.Containg an anti fade property and shape which helps them going off during racing and giving hopefully a season of racing before replacement. A softer road going compound is C-STR687. The thick top plate has an internal thread rather than the nut welded in place as per the standard cone springs or copies. these have a yellow dot on the metal base for identification purposes.
These are manufactured by a highly technical company involed in rubber on Formula 1 cars."
http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... |Back%20to
Jono
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by Jono »

Thanks guys,

I think it's a toss up between std Minispares cones or their red dot.

Any comments on the red dot, I fell inclined to play safe and stick with std cones but are there any noticable handling avdantages in using red dot or do they just make it all a bit harsh?

Most of my driving is country lanes in Cumbria, Borders and north Pennines if that helps - these are narrow twisty and bumpy for those who don't know ;)

Cheers

Jon
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by wantafaster1 »

First stage prepared Mini I had with Spax and the red spots was actually more comfortable than standard. They were only fitted to the front.
Jono
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by Jono »

..so standard on the rear and red spot on the front works well?

Jon
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by wantafaster1 »

In my experience, yes. That car had done the tour of mull, the roads aren't great where I live either. There was a bit of body roll if you were on a continuing corner on a race circuit. Hydro bump stops too, on the front.
In all seriousness, it was very un mini-like, very composed!
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by wantafaster1 »

The ride height was roughly standard too.
Jono
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by Jono »

Wantfaster - many thanks for this. I will go with this set up and see where it gets me.

Incidentally, I have heard that red spot cones ride higher than standard - I have adjusta rides on my my car (I think these are the Minisport version of Hi Lo?). Should I be considering machining them down a little?

Cheers

Jon
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by phil.1380 »

Hi Jono

In my limited experience of them you will probably need to give them a bit of a shave, yes.

They do ride high to start with, as do any new cones, but you will struggle to get them down to a standard ride height even with the Hi-lo (or equivalent) set at their lowest setting.

Phil.
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by Jono »

Cheers Phil,

A 100 mile thrash around the Borders last weekend (chasing my pals Integrale) convinced me that I need to sort the handling.

Minilites going well BTW ;)

Jon
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by GraemeC »

Jono wrote:Thanks guys,

I think it's a toss up between std Minispares cones or their red dot.

Any comments on the red dot, I fell inclined to play safe and stick with std cones but are there any noticable handling avdantages in using red dot or do they just make it all a bit harsh?

Most of my driving is country lanes in Cumbria, Borders and north Pennines if that helps - these are narrow twisty and bumpy for those who don't know ;)

Cheers

Jon
Jon,

I am in very North Lancashire - yoiu're welcome to come and have a look at my road rally car which is on red-spots and Spax if you wish?
I run at a 'normal' ride height and haven't needed to shorten the Hi-Los.
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by Smiffy »

Think the whole problem with the Hi-Lo's, red cones. Depends on the age of the Hi-Lo's, with the original Ripspeed versions there aren't any problems.
Jono
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by Jono »

Thanks for all the comments guys :)

Graeme - thank you for your kind offer that would be great. I will PM you when I find myself heading south as I reside in the far north east corner of the county!

Which bit of Lancs? I get around the county quite a bit with work and often get into south Lakes so N Lancs is not much further....and spring is in the air 8-)

Cheers

Jon
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by Cables »

If your interested in selling the springs I might be interested
CooperTune
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by CooperTune »

Not to disagree with others I'll just add my findings. I have a 85 1000 E which is a little heavy with Rino Liner under coat and closed cell neoprene 1/4" sound deadening on all cabin inside surfaces. Large left tank and Cooper S right tank. Fully adjustable suspension all round, S brakes and 1275 Cooper S power. Riding on 165/10 s on Cooper S 4.5 steel wheels. Built from a new shell in 01 using new (at that time) MSC cones we put 80,000 miles on the car. You don't really notice the ride getting harder as much as the lowering of the ride height. I freshened the power unit, engine and tranny, suspension and brakes using the very late crossover tube ( I'm a LHD type ) and one part booster/master set up. I had a new set on red dots on hand and placed them at the front. New std cones in the rear. Nothing special for shocks Gas a just of something like that. Doing four corner cone swaps often I find new std cones do a great job. I was very unhappy with the red dots on the front of my car. They bang over every tar strip. Not being happy with my cam shaft choice and the ride I placed her in a corner on jack stands till I have time to go back and correct the mistakes. I have very serious vintage race cars in my shop and the red dots seem fine there. I'm just not happy with the choice for the street. Few people use their classic as a daily driver and 8/10 thousand miles a year I want to be comfortable as possible. Steve (CTR)
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by Smiffy »

What about the Moulton 'Smootha Ride' cones from the other big supplier. Anyone tried 'em ?
Tim
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Re: suspension rubber springs

Post by Tim »

I've got Moulton Smooth-a-rides on my Moke. I had them fitted by my mechanic and he reported that they were a total pain in the proverbial to fit. The front ones in particular are very tall when new and were very difficult to get into the subframe towers.

I went from badly compressed original cones to the smooth-a-rides and they were a total revelation. The ride was much smoother and more comfortable and the handling was much better.

However they are not nearly as good now. They've now been on for just over 10 years (where did that go?) and have hardened and compressed a lot. I would guess they lasted fairly well for the first 5 or 6 years, gradually settling and stiffening over time. In hindsight I would still use them again and recommend them, but don't expect them to last forever.

Tim
1951 Morris Commercial J Type Van
1955 BSA C11G
1961 Morris Mini Traveller
1969 Triumph TR6R
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