Registrations during the British Home Country Era

[De-hira5729]

Hi,
I am currently considering purchasing the 1071s.

Is there a way to find out the registrations that were used on this vehicle at the time?

Currently, all we know is the chassis No.

[Peter Laidler]

Not enough information I'm afraid De-hira. The forum flock of experts (not me.....) will need to know the date that it was registered and where in the Country. All I can tell you is that an early 60's car will be......
one, two, three or 4pour numbers plus the County or City code
one, two or three numbers followed by a letter, followed by the County or City code........ And on and on it goes

[gs.davies]

Well, I think something can be approximated..

The heritage certificate will tell you where the car was despatched to, and it's not unreasonable to expect that the car would have been registered in the same county.

There's a book on registrations which IIRC gives information about which combinations were in use at specific times by registration district, and so you could kind of take your pick of what might have possibly been.

You could then look for a registration for sale through one of the registration dealers that was issued around the right time.

This won't be the registration that went ON the vehicle at first registration though.

Alternatively, I think the HPI system can show registration history from a VIN number.

[beardylonodn]

This is handy, if you know where it was dispatched:

https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/registr ... etters.htm

[woodypup59]

If you can pm me the chassis number, i may be able to give you an approx build date.

[De-hira5729]

Not enough information I'm afraid De-hira. The forum flock of experts (not me.....) will need to know the date that it was registered and where in the Country. All I can tell you is that an early 60's car will be......
one, two, three or 4pour numbers plus the County or City code
one, two or three numbers followed by a letter, followed by the County or City code........ And on and on it goes

As expected, there is little information.
I understand the fe code, but...
Based on the production date of the electrical parts, I believe it was around February 1964.
The registration example you are referring to is something like 111GRX?
I had in mind a registration similar to aaa111b!

[De-hira5729]

Well, I think something can be approximated..

The heritage certificate will tell you where the car was despatched to, and it's not unreasonable to expect that the car would have been registered in the same county.

There's a book on registrations which IIRC gives information about which combinations were in use at specific times by registration district, and so you could kind of take your pick of what might have possibly been.

You could then look for a registration for sale through one of the registration dealers that was issued around the right time.

This won't be the registration that went ON the vehicle at first registration though.

Alternatively, I think the HPI system can show registration history from a VIN number.

Maybe we can find out the VIN number somehow!

[De-hira5729]

This is handy, if you know where it was dispatched:

https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/registr ... etters.htm

If you can narrow it down to a certain extent, this will be very useful!
I'll bookmark this.

[De-hira5729]

If you can pm me the chassis number, i may be able to give you an approx build date.

Very reassuring!
I will PM you!!

[woodypup59]

I have replied. Late October 1963 I reckon.

[Polarsilver]

Build date & First UK Registration date do not assume they follow closely..for example my 1071 the Heritage Cert shows it was built in 1963 car was dispatched & then over a year @ Car Mart before it got its first registration number.

[Peter Laidler]

Further to the last answers. The period 1963 to 66 or so was a time of many changes within the UK vehicle registration number system. I'm sure the real experts will say - as they have - that some counties/cities were still using the numbers/letters, some were running out of allocated letters, say 999 YBL and were going over to the new series, of year marker, with a year letter after the number. So 999YBL would soon become ABL 1 D (for 1966)

During the same period, other Counties were STILL using up old combinations such as 1234 PL (a 1963 number). So you see, that what you are hoping to find is all dependent on where it was registered.

In truth, that period was mind numbing for the motor trade. That was until the Dept of Transport took the bull by the horns and introduced the year suffix across the board. Even then, the trade were not happy and had the year suffix changed to indicate..........

Anyway, best of luck but I don't anticipate a great deal of success for you

[gs.davies]

Further to the last answers. The period 1963 to 66 or so was a time of many changes within the UK vehicle registration number system. I'm sure the real experts will say - as they have - that some counties/cities were still using the numbers/letters, some were running out of allocated letters, say 999 YBL and were going over to the new series, of year marker, with a year letter after the number. So 999YBL would soon become ABL 1 D (for 1966)

During the same period, other Counties were STILL using up old combinations such as 1234 PL (a 1963 number). So you see, that what you are hoping to find is all dependent on where it was registered.

In truth, that period was mind numbing for the motor trade. That was until the Dept of Transport took the bull by the horns and introduced the year suffix across the board. Even then, the trade were not happy and had the year suffix changed to indicate..........

Anyway, best of luck but I don't anticipate a great deal of success for you

I thought it was 1963, and the 'A' suffix that wasn't widely taken up, but that almost all registration areas had fallen in line by 1964 with the 'B' suffix?

I've got to say, registrations are weirdly fascinating..

[peasantslife]

There are three books which cover the period from 1901 through to 2001 and the introduction of the current system.
Book1 covers everything up to 1964, ie from A1 through to each County councils transition to the Suffix series. Author the late Les Newell, been out of print 20 years, though a much awaited reprint by his son is due imminently.
Book2 covers from the first A Suffix through to 1974 when the councils handed over responsibility to DVLC. Author Jonathan Del Mar, this is also currently running out of stocks, I may be able to pick up a few more from Jonathan direct, but was selling them slowly at events for the last 3 years.
Book3 covers 74 through to prefix and on to the introduction of the current series. Also by Jonathan and with limited stocks too.

For both of Jonathan's books it will tell you for each council, or later which LVLO, VRO, and even later whether the car was registered by the computer link direct known as AFRL, gives first to last in each series, what numbers were omitted from the series, and what reserve series were held and used for registering or allocating to cars needing a date sensitive plate.
Its a seriously complex subject with so many anomalies - all of which are covered - thanks to councils doing their own thing and even DVLA/DVLC not following their own direction!
I used the books extensively - and regular discussions with Jonathan - when I was collating data on the 800 cars I curate.

So, back to your quest, if we know the date of despatch and destination we can possibly identify some series it could have been registered in. From there you can try the councils records office as many still hold the paper ledgers, so its only a case of thumbing through to find appropriate mini of the correct colour and engine capacity. Survivors will be on the database, so you can eliminate those, leaving just the few that your car possibly was. Not easy but its do'able.

[kit of bits]

My 1275 S was dispatched from the factory 3rd Dec 1964 and sold by Caffyns Brighton on a C plate the car is continuously history on this number. Did the numbers run January to January then or would it have sat around?

[peasantslife]

Yes, 1st Jan to 31Dec 64 - however here is the first anomaly. East Sussex transitioned on 3rd Feb 64. The final on the old system was 9042 AP.
First on the new (suffix) was AAP 1B, ran to completion then ran ANJ, APM, APN, BAP, BNJ....to final for the year was CPN 810B. however the series has continued for re registrations.
So we see that E Sussex registered about 10k cars in the period 3rd Feb to year end. From that we can determine what series were running - approximately - month by month.

[peasantslife]

I should say we can be more accurate as Jonathan does have the data to tell me the earliest and last for each series.

[kit of bits]

Yes, 1st Jan to 31Dec 64 - however here is the first anomaly. East Sussex transitioned on 3rd Feb 64. The final on the old system was 9042 AP.
First on the new (suffix) was AAP 1B, ran to completion then ran ANJ, APM, APN, BAP, BNJ....to final for the year was CPN 810B. however the series has continued for re registrations.
So we see that E Sussex registered about 10k cars in the period 3rd Feb to year end. From that we can determine what series were running - approximately - month by month.

My heritage certificate says west Sussex?
Sorry I’m not trying to hijack the thread just finding it interesting.

[peasantslife]

Haha, Well I went on the 'retailed in Brighton'. But it is certainly true that many cars have been retailed new with plates which do not align with the geographic location of their retailing dealership.
There are as many reasons for this as days.. Its just easier to access the Council office of a different Council District. In Caffyns case perhaps Head office (which could have been 100 miles distant) does 'all' the registrations for the group _ except Caffyns current HQ is in Eastbourne also E Sussex.

But Looking at W Sussex..They only had 3 series. BP, PO, PX, but only started issuing Suffix registrations on 1st May'64. Again I know last unsuffixed plate, and the first B through to the final for the year. In many Councils there were series or sections of series held back exclusively for motorbikes. But not W Sussex. The justification being that with bikes you needed short number ie 1-99 as Registration plates are smaller. Its also why the registration harvesters hammered the classic bikes market. Again I can see how many registrations were issued between May and year end. And again I can see which series was used for re-reg or anything needing a registration when not new. But of course 'all' Mk1's ought to have been registered with the Local Council as the DVLC only took over in Oct 74, but whilst it was administratively centralised, the actual work was being done in Local Vehicle Offices (LVO's) which sort of stretched the historic council borders, but the council offices did actually remain and continued issuing some registrations!

Yes its a fascinating subject which almost zero perrolheads have no better than a cursory understanding. If you want to be able to 'read' a plate I do suggest Jonathans books. I shall have some at NEC Resto show in 10 days. Hall4, just look for all the period steering wheels.

[AndyPen]

I have a February '64 1071 that was registered in Glamorgan, Wales. It is three numbers and three letters, with no B suffix, so they couldn't have changed in that part of the country at that time.