Rocker gear - MS Quality

[gs.davies]

Just gearing up to swap the head on LFF from the 295 that's on it to a Keith Calver Stage 3 item.

Having renewed all the valve stem seals with new Viton specimens, I started to assemble the rocker gear. I'm using a MiniSpares Heavy Duty shaft and their Cooper S rockers, along with one of their spacer kits. I noticed that the shaft has got some marks on it, looks like the hardening hasn't been completed. I also noticed that the pads of the rocker arms have an inconsistent surface finish to them.

MS have agreed to have the shaft back (and I've asked to send the rockers back too), but what's the thoughts here on the pads? Worth using or not?

Are there better alternatives? My primary goal is reliability. Car is currently using a set of standard A plus rockers, were already second hand when the car went together last year. Retaining them is an option..

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[gs.davies]

They're also rather expensive..

[whistler]

I use AC Dodd's 1.3 rockers.

[BigWig]

Might be worth speaking to KAD? They supply both as far as I know.

[tweedy998]

Use some of Keith's rockers, excellent quality.

[swifty]

I’ve taken a rocker shaft back to Minispares for the same reason . No problem at all with exchange or refund . They’ve known of a problem with these for a while now . My rocker shaft was quite badly worn in no more than 50 miles . This was approx 6 months ago … Shirley

[Costafortune]

They’ve known of a problem with these for a while now .

Then they should all be in a metal recycling skip. Those rockers are shocking.

[GraemeC]

I'd also recommend Keith's.

Yes they're expensive in comparison, but you've seen for yourself the problem with going cheap.
We are all quick to berate cheap parts for being crap (especially rubber ones), but if we aren't prepared to pay for decent stuff then the cheap stuff will keep getting produced and sold and the forums will forever be full of people showing pictures of sub-standard parts.

The other option is hunt around for OEM stuff that's still serviceable - if your existing ones are better than those you've bought from MS then stick with them.

[swifty]

It was the shaft I had a problem with not the rockers … Shirley

[Costafortune]

It was the shaft I had a problem with … Shirley

He's a complicated man.
But no one understands him but his woman.

[Exminiman]

……… He's a complicated man.
But no one understands him but his woman.

https://youtu.be/GdZQu0yyrM0

Actually had to cheat and Google it

[Costafortune]

……… He's a complicated man.
But no one understands him but his woman.

https://youtu.be/GdZQu0yyrM0

Actually had to cheat and Google it

[gs.davies]

Post script to this story

I sent the shaft and rockers back to Minispares. They are happy to send a replacement shaft but can't do the rockers..

"Unfortunately, the nature of these rockers has some imperfections, but we have sold hundreds with no failures. Your displeasure remains with them not having perfect finishes and I’m say I cannot guarantee 8 pristine perfect examples that you would be pleased with."

So that's that.

Head Swap postponed until funds can be found for something that's made correctly.

[CooperTune]

Assembling an A+ 940 cyl head over the weekend I opened a new HD shaft and a bag of MSC 1.3 rockers. The shaft looked fine and as per normal I deburred the shaft with 1500 followed by a pass on the buffing wheel. Having seen this post, I gave all lifters a good look. I did not have any pads that concerned me. I did notice one rocker missing the jam nut. The first two rockers slid right down the shaft. I had to lightly hone the next six in order to assemble them. I have been using then for years on all my street builds. I normally order several sets at a time.

I have sets from early Cooper S units, I used to press the bushing out, press new in and size bush. Then reprofile the pad and send out to case harden the pad. I'm comfortable working with the MSC rockers. Steve (CTR)

[gs.davies]

Thanks Steve. When you say that you didn't see any pads that concern you, seven of the ones I sent back had that black spot in varying sizes on them.

As I've had trouble with the shaft, the response from MS hasn't filled me with confidence - would you have rejected those?

[CooperTune]

I have a slightly different situation, being a little further from MSC. Just my thoughts, the little black specs are likely to be low to surface. Low spots don't seem to hurt us. High spot on the other hand tear things up. I'd hit them with some 1000 or 1500 if they don't come out, they are not a problem.
I'm finding everything I get needs close inspection and a little help to be as good as possible. Steve (CTR)

[gs.davies]

Yes, however, to the uninitiated, and we don't all have significant experience, MS's response which was basically 'we sold loads and not had an issue' could equally have applied to the shaft, which was suspect, it's difficult to know what's what and what to do for the best. Also given my experience with other Minispares components that have failed with expensive consequences (like having to have a new wheel bearing and 7" Cooper Drive Flange in Switzerland) you can perhaps understand my nervousness with trusting their products.

In response to the quote from one of the greatest songs ever, in a perfect world, I'd simply drive the car somewhere, leave it for someone to do and pick it up when done, if I had means to do so. Unfortunately in a lot of cases, paying the money isn't always an option.

Whilst the MS one is mass produced to get the cost down, it surely should pass QC to make sure it's fit for purpose. I'd certainly expect that KC's products would be ready to be assembled straight out of the box. Keith's rockers are 1.4 ratio and are a custom part. The MiniSpares bit is a standard item.

[OzOAP]

Used a few sets of MS 'S' Rockers on std 'S' builds.
Some come through not honed to size
Some the pad is not parallel to shaft axis.
Some the tappet adjuster screw thread is not 90° to shaft axis.
Ratios vary.

I tend to order 10 or 12 and hopefully have 8 usable.
Un-usable ones I return. If I'm lucky and there's good ones left over, they go towards the next set.

Shafts always need deburing on split pin holes and #2 post retaining screw hole.
Shaft quality seems to be the same wherever I get them from.

[Exminiman]

Whilst the MS one is mass produced to get the cost down, it surely should pass QC to make sure it's fit for purpose.

I think thats a little unfair, you dont actually know there is a problem with the MS rockers, you just dont like the black specs.

As mentioned by Steve really you should worry if the surface is raised.

This is really "Horses for Courses" you are not going to get KC quality for the price of MS rockers......but KC rockers are designed for a competition engine, if your car is going to do a few thousand miles a year then the MS rocker is likely to be fine and you will save some money.

The Rocker (Thin Lizzy) https://youtu.be/f62p2J98S8A?si=cOh0BfA9iIcjFhbF

[gs.davies]

Whilst the MS one is mass produced to get the cost down, it surely should pass QC to make sure it's fit for purpose.

I think thats a little unfair, you dont actually know there is a problem with the MS rockers, you just dont like the black specs.

As mentioned by Steve really you should worry if the surface is raised.

This is really "Horses for Courses" you are not going to get KC quality for the price of MS rockers......but KC rockers are designed for a competition engine, if your car is going to do a few thousand miles a year then the MS rocker is likely to be fine and you will save some money.

The Rocker (Thin Lizzy) https://youtu.be/f62p2J98S8A?si=cOh0BfA9iIcjFhbF

Another great tune referenced in this thread, love it!

No, I don’t know if there’s a problem. That’s the point. I’ve had no reassurance that they’re ok to use from the vendor. As referenced above, with the poor quality of several other bits of stuff I’ve had, why would these be any different?

Cracking and perishing six month old rubber
Wheel Bearings failing after 1000 miles
Poor surface finish on rocker shaft
Bent trim unfit for use
Peeling ‘hardura’ sound deadening

The consequences of finding one of these rockers failing after a short time will potentially lead to further engine damage.

That’s what I’m cross about.