Arches on a mk1

[Steve A]

My mk1 bodyshell is nearly ready for paint and the bodyshop wants to know if i am fitting arches so they can drill the holes before paint.
My hubs/brakes are cooper s on the front and minifins on the rear with built in spacers.
I have a set of Dunlop d1's i was thinking of fitting or maybe split rims or minilites, whichever i feel suit the car when finished.
What wheels can i fit without having to fit arches?
If i have to fit arches then i think the narrow group 2 arches with the lip for the sill trim to run along look good but where do i get a good quality set from?
Thanks Steve

[guru_1071]

steve

assuming that your running s brakes and 165/70 tyres, the widest wheels you will be able to run are 4.5" (or the more expensive 4.75" rose petals)

anything bigger and the tyres will poke out, not something thats a good look nowadays - vosa certainly dont like it

[mk1]

Your options without arches are Std S wheels (repros available from Minispares etc), 4.5" Minilite type wheels (my preference is Minispares 4.5" Minilifes), Rosepetals as Rich has suggested, in the more exotic second hand market there is also things like MK1 Cosmics & Speedwell wheels.

If you fit Dunlop D1's or later Cosmics you will definitely need arches these both stick out quite a long way as they weren't really designed for cars with Disk brakes but for drum braked cars.

Personally speaking I feel that Arches should be reserved for competition vehicles not for road cars. If you do decide to go the arch route, be prepared to spend A LOT of time fitting them, its not a straight forward job to get them looking good by any means.

[Gray]

I think Pauls (Costin) in NZ look the best fit anywhere but may be a bit expensive carriage.

[Steve A]

Thanks guys, i have had my Dunlops refurbed now but may just stick em up the loft lol. I ran gb minilites on my mk2 but that had the early 1275gt 7" brakes which incedently were terrible.
Something else i've got to ponder over.
I need to make some decisions very soon including what COLOUR to paint the car as it should be ready for paint next week! It was originally red but this will be my one and only chance to change it.
Thanks again Steve

[Tim]

The Australian arches can be fitted later without drilling the body. The are relatively narrow and are designed to have the chrome plastic side trim clipped over them. They offer a nice neat finished appearance because all the fasteners are concealed.

They are available from the bigger suppliers here and are very light so I expect postage wouldn't be too bad.

Tim

[Tedwong]

Hi Tim,

I have a set of Australian arch which I'd like to fit to my Mini Miami.
I'm very interested to know the method they fit without drilling?
Can you explain a bit more?

Thanks
Ted

[GraemeC]

Ted,

There is some drilling, but it is through the flange rather than the main of the wing. This is to hold a backing piece in place which the arch then clips to with the chrome strip.

I actually mocked them up and then bonded the arch to the backing piece, making them all one piece similar to the Wood & Pickett arches. The had them painted and pop rivetted them to the car from underneath.
Pictures of my arches and backing pieces bonded together:





I can get more detailed pics of them fitted if you like?

[Pete]

Thanks guys, i have had my Dunlops refurbed now but may just stick em up the loft lol.

That's a shame, I know it's a 'no no' MOT wise nowadays but I ran my last S on D1's with 145 tyres no problem and passed MOT's no issue, they only stick out a smidge and to my mind was a no brainer as I like D1's and the car had them on since 1967. I've a mate who's got D1's on his S too. Rebelious or what ?!!!

[Steve A]

Hi Surf, any pics with the d1's on? Is your car Surf Blue by any chance? if so i could do with a pic as its one of the colours i am thinking about, cheers Steve

[Tedwong]

Hello Tim,

Thanks for the pics!
What are those backing piece made of? Are they available separately? I only have the arch kit. Also, how are you stick the arch to the backing piece? Any problem of the arch, when finally fitted, not close to the wing?
Sorry for so many questions, but more pics will be great!

Cheers
Ted

[Tim]

Hi Ted, those are Graemes pics, but I can answer too. When I bought my flares the backing pieces weren't available, but were very easy to make. I just held the flares against the body and used a piece of thin card held up against the underside of the wheel arch and curved around to follow it. Then I just traced the edge of the flare onto it. I used some thin galvanised sheet (OK it was the side panels out of a dead washing machine) to cut out the backing pieces and pop rivetted them on. The photo below (which I have rather rudely borrowed from Ausmini) shows how the backing pieces fit.



You can get a genuine fitting kit from Mini King in NSW, and it includes some quite large plastic plugs (about 1/4") that are meant to be drilled through the side panel, but they aren't neccessary and I believe the weren't used on the later cars.

Tim

[Tedwong]

Hi Tim,

Thanks a lot! The pic show it all! So, the arches are actually fitted onto the now "extended" flange?
Is the Mini King NSW the same as Mini Kingdom years ago which I bought my arch from? They have a very big catalogue.

Ted

[Tim]

Yes thats right Ted. On the later Clubman based Mini S and LS the flanges are spot welded to the standard narrow lip, they probably were on the later Cooper S too. On the earlier cars they were initally an option, but became a legal requirement after a year or so, so were often retro fitted. Two types of front flares were available for either round nosed or clubman fronted Minis, and the rear ones will fit on to the rear of vans too, so they are quite versatile.

Its a bit of a convoluted story, but Mini King is John Schmidt (probably not spelled like that though) who used to own Mini Kingdom. He bought a vast quantity of Leyland Australia spare parts so has long been the best source of Aussie mini spares. He trades on e-bay as mymini48, and currently lists a genuine flare fitting kit. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/COOPER-S-AND-MIN ... 41547a0692 From memory the fitting kit has some handy clips that hold the seam of the flare to the metal flange, as well as the fairly useless plastic plugs, some self tapping screws to attach the flanges and a set of typed instructions dating from the early '70s. The clips are the most useful bit.

I bought a set of flares from Mini Kingdom about 10 years ago and they were repro ones made of a slightly soft black plastic, the originals were more rigid, a bit like fibreglass. If anything the softer ones are probably a bit less brittle, so better I'd say.

Tim

[GraemeC]

Interesting photo Tim - after fitting my backing pieces under the flange (as shown in your photo I think) I was later told that they were actually fitted on top from the factory. This would lift the arch around 1.6mm which may have made it slightly easier to fit, I don't know.

Ted - I used 0.8mm aluminium for my backing pieces and fitted it as shown in Tim's photo with small self tapping screws. However I made it way too wide (I think I started with 3" wide strips) so it stuck out too far but also stuck 'inwards' too far - it is most important that you make sure it stays square to the wing and doesn't twist.
I then held the arch in place and drew round it's edge and also drew a line on the inside edge of the wing. Then removed the backing piece and cut to shape.
Then refitted the backing peice with screws again and used Sikaflex/Tigerseal/PU Panel Adhesive to stick the arch to the backing piece and held it in place with some old clips off a stripped down seat until everything was set, making sure the arch was a good fit to the car body.
Removed the arch and backing piece as a complete unit and painted them.
Refit everything, this time with pop rivets, and added the chrome strip.

MiniSport.au have the backing strips, fitting kits and arches on their site. As Tim says - I don't see the point in the plastic buttons in the fitting kit, they're not needed.

[Tim]

Interesting, I've never seen correctly shaped backings for them, but I'd sort of guessed that they were this shape, after cutting making mine on the car.



I did find that my car was a bit assymmetrical and that the backings ended up a slightly different shape on each side.

Tim

[GraemeC]

They're the round nose ones, the clubman ones are the same shape front and rear:


Although I must admit, with hand making them I think every corner turned out slightly different, not just assymetrical!

[Tedwong]

Hi Tim and Graeme,
Thank you very much for the detail information.
I did bought a set of fitting kit from mymini48 some time ago, but without even knowing the backing plates, I have no idea how to use them. Now its cleared! . He did sell a lot of original stuffs for Aussie Minis, I bought a new front 1/4light for my future restoration from him as well.

Graeme, I'm impressed with the procedure you did your arches, so many times up and down and up again! Thats we call perfect! Any chane to have some pics showing the arches on car? Do you need anything to make sure the arch "stick" onto the wing surface?

Cheers
Ted

[GraemeC]

The arches sit against the wing surface quite well and snug, although I did ad a very fine bead of the PU adhesive just to seal the join a little and to stop them rubbing the paint away.

There are some photos on my project thread (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42&start=20), however I've taken a few close ups too.....

[Steve A]

Will the rosepetals from minispares fit straight on without arches or will i need to modify the calipers to fit without spacers OR if i fit the spacers they supply will i need arches? regards Steve