Of course we've had this discussion many times, simply because there is no one answer. There are many, and there are none.
Do the DVLA care? No. They are a government body set up to oversee the allocation and management of vehicle registrations, to gather tax revenue and various other administrative processes relating to motoring. I don't know the percentages, but let's say 50% private cars, 40% company, fleet vehicles and HGVs etc, and 10% everything else, of which a fairly small % are historic vehicles. It is a tick on the dog's back. They are neither staffed, inclined, nor qualified to get involved. The issues we are talking about are possibly misrepresentation or fraud (if sold on false pretences), and depending on the detail either a police matter or civil. Not their concern. At a push, and given enough evidence, they MIGHT recall a plate, but we all know that there are no shortage of hooky ID's in drawers and old toolboxes, so the old mini / landrover / Ford / MG...... is reborn and the cycle continues.
If someone is genuinely hoodwinked into buying something that is not what it purports to be, the police MIGHT be interested, but more often than not will say 'Innocennt until proven guilty, and we think it's a civil dispute, not our area, off you pop to a solicitor". At best you might get a crime number.
So, what of the dealers and auction houses? Well, as I have said before, I used to, long ago, work for a well known London classic car auction house, and so have seen both sides of the coin. It seems it is a commonly held belief that auction houses are entirely staffed by an army of red trousered, loafer clad specialists who are simultaneously experts in every production variant of every vehicle ever made, whilst also cretinous inbred buffoons who wouldn't know a Sinclair C5 from a double decker bus, such is their inability to get a description right in a catalogue. So, which is it? Well, truth be told, a bit of both. Most know a fair bit about one area or another - Pre War, post war, bikes, single seaters of a certain area, but no one - Not one of them, is a specialist in everything. They should all have a broad knowledge of the market, be able to know a fair smattering about the big names and models we see a lot of, and which of their colleagues to refer to for the stuff they don't. Me? I know a fair bit about Minis, Lotus, '50s and '60s sports and racing cars, can tell a lotus 20 from a 22 across a paddock (and when it's a 20/22). Do I know the minute details of Jag XK models? A bit, but not like folk here know Minis. Can I tell a Type 35 from a type 51 Bugatti? Yes, with about 80% accuracy. Can I identify a Rolls Royce Phantom from a 20/25? Yes. Can I tell you the coachbuilder of a particular 20/25 from a photograph? No, probably not. So, was I a bad auction house employee? No. Was I fairly typical? Yes (But with less self confidence than my privately educated co-workers perhaps.....)
So, when a client wants to enter a mini in a sale, all of us could ask the basics, and I would hope that most could look at a Mk3 or 4 and say 'That's not a Mk1 shell. Would they all spot the Mk2? maybe not all. Should they? well, as Mini enthusiasts, you'd maybe say yes, and maybe be right, but for Hillmans too? and Ferraris? Dussenbergs? Austin Healey's? Allards? Bugatti? Corvettes? Modern supercars that sound like it might be a pasta dish? How many on here know that much about all other cars? Honestly? and remember, the lower value the car, the less commission, hence, less time and attention it'll get - this is a commercial world, and time is money.
So, the seller. They bring a car, they tell you about it on the phone, by email, whatever. You may get decent photos by email and not even have to go and see it before it arrives. They tell you all about it, and on that basis, you write the description to give it, and the vendor (and by extension, your employer) the best chance of a good sale, and making a few Quid. What are they now, 5% seller commission? Not a lot of hours, especially if you have to go and see it, photograph it etc. So, assuming it all looks legit, in it goes, and the catalogue goes out and on line. Then the phone starts to ring -people asking about it, but also people telling you the description is wrong, the car is wrong, that you are all eejits and know hee-haw about anything, That they have informed the world by way of the internet, and their specialist forum are up in arms - battle cries have been issued, and hackles raised. So, you go to the boss and tell his the tale of woe. "are they looking to buy it?" "nope" "are they selling it?" "nope" "are they leading authorities on the make, model or anything like that?" "maybe some of them" "are they officials from the owners club" "maybe some of them, maybe not" "OK, but they are not buyers, and not sellers? So what exactly is it to do with them?"
Now, that might sound harsh, but look at it from the business point of view - the auction house has a contract with the vendor. What is to say that joe bloggs on-line is right? goodness knows here are differences of opinion on here over detail. Auction houses exist to make money. To sell cars, and have HUGE overheads invested to do that. They are not curators of museums. there should certainly not be positive efforts to mislead, of course, but if every car at a sale had a saleroom notice on the screen that said "some people on the internet think this car has the wrong aged shell / wrong brake servo pipe / incorrect seat flute detail" etc. It would be ridiculous.
But going back to the seller - they, I think, hold the bulk of the responsibility, and maybe that is why some chose the apparent anonymity of the auction route - a degree of separation. Again, that is on them, and in an informed market, the buyer has the ability to acquaint themselves of opinion and knowledge, through forums, clubs, social media and the good old fashioned library / bookshop. So they hold a responsibility too.
IF there is deception on the part of anyone over any part of the identity of a vehicle, who had greatest role? Likely the seller, but even then, not always. Maybe they swapped a chassic plate from a Mk1 Cooper onto a Rover era shell. Maybe to add value, maybe to avoid the DVLA private plate costs, maybe to 'complete' a retro conversion. but yes, they should be honest about it, and if using an agent (either a dealer or auction house) they should tell them, if they don't have the model specific knowledge to take it as read.
I think often, because they facilitate the sale, Auction houses are tarred with all the sins of the old car game. Yes, sometimes we researched, inspected, pored over and really got to the bottom of a car. Examined the authoritive text books written years ago, took info from the internet, new recollections, went back to those involved and re assessed history where several cars may have become mixed and muddled when the numbers involved didn't justify the time or effort. But that isn't the case for the vast majority of cars in the catalogue.
And, lots not forget, we all take this far too seriously, because it matters to us in our own wee world. Many people who buy a '65 Mini Cooper S, WANT to believe that is what they have. It might have been reshelled, it might have the wrong engine or wiper motor, it might have been a Cooper when it was new, and for a lot of people (and yes, often those new to it and with the money to spend) they simply don't worry about that, because it's not on their radar. I'm not saying it's right to exploit the naivety of some people in the market - far from it, and often auction houses are the very people who advise relatively impartially, whilst dealers want to shift their own stock at the time. But is it for anyone else to protect them? Does that not shield them from taking decisions themselves?
So, it's a shared responsibility, it is good that discussions in general terms take place in the open, but the Worlds problems are not the same for everyone, not are they the job of the Mk1-forum to solve.
Of course, there is the issue of history and provenance, and that is a whole other layer, but it's too late at night to discuss that or I'll have Pete on the phone with steam comin' out his ears
So, that is my (long) take on it. I worked for an auction house which later became rather well known for less than brilliant financial management and some of that was perhaps due to criticism of the quality of descriptions. Who that was down to, I cannot say, but I also know people who still work in the industry and work very hard to keep clients, vendors and buyers, happy. Sometimes history has not been linear for a car and making that clear is not solely their job. Sometimes they should recognise it, other times it is less simple to spot.
Maybe the posts on this thread have helped, or will help some potential buyers, either looking at specific cars, or just to know what to look for when buying at auction - something a lot of people are put off of by scare stories and doubts. A LOT of good cars sell at auction after all
Al
) and wouldn't accept its value was wrecked by being in the wrong shell, we all said 8k was about right.