Top Suspension Arm Removal - Advice Needed

[goff]

DK if you have access to burning gear and arc welder , try this , remove the diamond plate put the nut back on, run a bead of weld on the nut and thread, then heat up the top arm with the burning gear both ends were the needle rollers are,try Turning the pin with socket/spanner back and forwards , you have nothing to lose ,it will be smokey until the grease and rubber seals burn away, pack the arm from moving, if it moves get a pry bar between the body and pin and try to move it forward, it's great what a bit of heat can do, don't forget fire extinguisher at your side and a hose from the water supply, just in case.
Good luck
Goff

[rich@minispares.com]

I think that it would be risky to heat it up as it would have to get so hot (its a big lump of cast after all!) that the radiating heat would be a problem.

it got pretty hot just cutting it with a disk cutter!

[dklawson]

Thanks for the additional advice both regarding obstacles to the cut off wheel and the use of heat.

Heat will not help in this instance. We are able to turn the pin... it simply won't move axially out of the arm. No amount of prying, prodding, or hammering has budged it.

I will still try starting with the cut off wheel as whatever start it can offer will be quicker than using the reciprocating saw. One way or another we will cut this pin off to extract the arm. Hopefully once removed the problem preventing the pin from moving will be apparent and worthy of a picture.

[rich@minispares.com]

Hopefully once removed the problem preventing the pin from moving will be apparent and worthy of a picture.

my magical powers tell me that your photo will include a very rusty chewed up shaft, a rubbed through bearing case and some bearings that look like rat turds

[goff]

DK if still have no joy you could try this : If you know someone who is very good with the burning gear , they could burn away ( flush ) the washers away on the front side first including the pin, then move the arm forward and burn the pin away, I would do it this way , it's messy with slag and would burn of any paint on or around the front subframe, if it's a classic car then maybe a no no , just trying to help.

Rich heating up the top arm would be easy , I see what you are saying about heat transfer , there is a knack to it,I was a welder/fabricator before retiring ,the only issue I would have would be burning the paint on and around the subframe,and same goes for the method above ,
Goff

[ianh1968]

There is not really room for a puller in that location

The 1/2" UNF nut WAS the puller - Nothing extra would be required...

Just the same as you use the nut to pull the thrust washer into
the diamond plate. Fixing the diamond plate slightly further out
and then winding on the nut should pull the shaft through.

Good luck with the nuclear option!

Ian

[Spider]

the little 'hump' of the subframe where the rebound rubber sits gets in the way, so you cannot get a straight cutting angle to try and not damage the arm.

This is why my weapon of choice was the reciprocating saw, still needed a careful hand but it did allow the arm to come out without damage.

[dklawson]

My regret is that at this time I won't be able to try any of these approaches for several days.

Thanks again. I will keep you posted regarding our progress.

[Spider]

Is it possible to put the diamond plate back on, loosely, with say,
1/4" between it and the subframe? Push some slightly longer 1/4"
bolts through the diamond, then through some 5/16" nuts used as
spacers, then through the sub-frame and finally put the 1/4" nuts on.

Put the 1/2" UNF nut on, but no washer and use it like a puller tool?
Molegrips on the tail end will probably be required to stop it spinning.

I am sure that I've used this method myself many years ago...

OK, it will only pull it about 1/4", but it might be enough to get it
past the problem spot. Repeat to fade...

If I am understanding the problem correctly, this could be easier
than the nuclear option!

Ian

Now I've just re-read Ian's suggesting and while fiddly, would be a good way to try first up, far less likely to damage anything, though you might need something thicker than the stock diamond plate so it doesn't bend, and you may have to hold the back end of the shaft with some vice grips to stop it spinning.

[ianh1968]

...though you might need something thicker than the stock
diamond plate so it doesn't bend, and you may have to hold the back end
of the shaft with some vice grips to stop it spinning.

Thank you, Spider - I was beginning to think that this was a case of:

"In (cyber)space, no-one can hear you scream...."

We are limited here by the amount of "spare" thread that there is on the
shaft, at both ends... Hence, the "no washer" suggestion. Because of this,
it may be necessary to have a few bites at it, each time using thicker
spacers between whatever puller plate is used and the subframe. Any
piece if stout metal with a 1/2" hole in it would do, as long as it fits in the
space available. The diamond plate may be strong enough, but as Spider
says, equally it may not be. If the diamond plate gets bent, just make it
flat again with a hammer....


At the tail end, as the shaft will be total scrap, the vice-grip/mole-grip
idea will be perfectly acceptable. Just don't nip them up too close to the
subframe or you'll be trying to pull these through as well...

There will be far more mechanical advantage against the problem using
the 1/2" UNF nut than you will ever get with a pry-bar etc.

Consider flywheel removal - Never in a month of Sundays should you be
ever able to "lever" this off...

Ian

[dklawson]

I received an email from my friend that he made an additional attempt to pry the pin out yesterday and it "just slid out" like I told him it was supposed to do. Unless the other side is also badly stuck I won't be trying any of the suggestions to remove the pin.

I really want to see the condition of the removed pin and bearings. Hopefully I will have details tomorrow.

[dklawson]

Sorry... no pictures. What I saw on the suspension parts from my friend's car did not justify a picture.

I worked with my friend this morning to remove the right front suspension bits. Everything went perfectly. Nothing stuck and we were done within an hour even though I had to improvise a couple of times.

My friend said that he and a neighbor got the left side arm in the right position and the stubborn pin we had been fighting just "slid right out". I looked at the pin and what was left of the needle bearings. I think flooding the inside of the arm with penetrating oil is what really made the difference. The damage to the shaft looked like nothing more than the build up of rust, peening, and a few minor ridges. The rollers were rusty and malformed and that appears to have allowed them enough play to prevent the shaft from moving when it had ANY load on it. It is a very lackluster conclusion to a problem that stumped us for the better part of a day.

[goff]

Nice One DK
Make sure your friend gets grease in both the top arms !!!!!!!! Regular
Goff