1963 1071 Cooper S - info wanted

[mniwagn]

If they didn't bother to paint the bottom side of the car, would they have painted inside?

[Pete]

Cooper Car Co (very dark green with white bonnet stripes !) rarely painted the inside of the cars , or under the bonnet / underneath, hence GPH being different colours top and bottom but we're not saying Rachel's is a Cooper Car Co racer !

Keep up !

[mniwagn]

Just saying because this car looks to have been painted inside out and underneath.

[Pete]

Ok folks, so the latest is that Steve Neal doesn't remember his 1071 coming from Stourbridge (maybe got it through Jim Whitehouse ?) BUT he does say it was still in Arden colours when it did the Monte Carlo Rally in '65 and he does remember that it was sold to someone in the U.S. Not a comprehensive answer but with respect to Steve he is a busy man and many years of running touring car teams have passed under the bridge since the 60's. Never been that nostalgic about the Minis either.

Not a smoking gun by any stretch but more to think about...

[Pluto]

What is sure : in 66, Steve has reverted to 551 BUY (in 1400 cm3 form). The 1071 seems alredy in the States !
Have a good hillclimb week-end Pete!

[251 ENG]

The 1968 MK2 CCC racers shown at the autosport show in period were still white / beige on the sills and under wheel arches .

[Tim]

Well Paddy doesn't remember his '66 Sebring car at all. He raced a Cooper Car Co Mini at Sebring in 1965 (GPH 1C which miraculously returned to the UK) and Abingdon's GRX 309D in 1967 which stayed stateside. As for '66 neither Paddy nor Bill Price can remember which car he drove with Manton and Manton's not around to ask is he ? I wonder if the Manton family have a photo of the car ?

Nice article on Manton in my favourite glossy here :


http://www.miniexperience.com.au/filead ... Manton.pdf

Does anyone have the full copy of that article and does it mention Sebring ?

It only mentions that Manton got a drive in a works MGB in 1966. It appears that Paddy did too. http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/ ... n-AUS.html

Tim

[Pete]

It only mentions that Manton got a drive in a works MGB in 1966. It appears that Paddy did too. http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/ ... n-AUS.html

Tim

That's a different race, that was the 12 Hour sportscar race that ran after the 4 Hour 'sedan' race. Right , off to Shelsley, the Vita Minisprint has arrived I have just heard.

[Will Grant]

This is interesting, i have a chrysler electric blue S, white underneath too, but its LHD sadly....

[Austin Costin]

The 1968 MK2 CCC racers shown at the autosport show in period were still white / beige on the sills and under wheel arches .

Only one of them, but yes good point.

[Pete]

I've had a quick scan through all my CCC pictures and most of the cars are factory body colour underneath though sometimes Cooper did paint the sills. GPH 1C I did hear today from someone very much in the know was indeed originally white.

Anyway back to 129 LNP , here's proof it went to the U.S and was raced in '66, and was blue. Check out entry No. 52 !

http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/N ... 2-04g.html

Strange day of coincidences today, again ! Never been to Stourbridge before but went back from Shelsley just by chance through the area. Also spoke to a someone who should know about these things ...ahem..Simon...who when looking at the production records says that only one of 32 Surf Blue Austin 1071's manufactured by July 8th when Rachel's car left the factory went to this area, that MUST have been Steve Neal's, ie Rachels !! Not two cars, just one.

The registration records at Worcester could have revealed the truth without all this research but they only recorded registration numbers , not chassis numbers sadly.

[mniwagn]

Well no matter what info you "find" it's still a reshell. Funny they still have the chassis number/heritage for the donor shell as I would figure that would go away quick. I guess I can't blame anyone for wanting a 1071!!

[Pete]

A reshelled period competition car ??!! Whatever next, sliced bread ??

It was reshelled in period and I just want to prove next that Arden did indeed do that.

You do sound specifically interested in this car for some reason Mr Wagn , I'd be interested to know why (actually maybe not) but I think you'll find the owners are being very transparent here, the car is what it is, not being fluffed up into anything that it isn't. If it had Steve Neal's fingerprints all over it or Paddy Hopkirk's sandwiches under the seat I doubt you'd be satisfied by the sounds of it

[Pete]

By the way, the reason Neil doesn't remember buying his car from Stour Valley Motor Co is because that company was a distributor for BMC cars and passed them onto to local dealers should a car be required. 1071's were in short supply in 1963 and if you wanted a particular colour or specifically an Austin or Morris then the dealers got one (if they could !) from the local distributor. this means that the destination of your car on your Heritage Certificate is often not the place the car was purchased from. Only 32 Surf Blue Austins had been made by the time Rachel's was built in early July and hers is the only car sent to this area.

[mniwagn]

Just find it funny how you say it's okay to swap chassis numbers around if its "period". Did BMC offer replacement shells at the time? Only thing 1071 about the car is the tag included. It even has a 1275 speedo. You know all this info is a story unless that chassis number can be tied to a reg.

[mniwagn]

No interest just would like to keep info more factual vs. an opinion.

[Pete]

That's fair comment but which part of any of what I've said isn't factual ? When you look at a car like this the circumstantial evidence plus the 'forensic' evidence is key, and that has amounted to quite a long list. A list like this is very hard to compile in most cases. If the car was reshelled in period , was prepared by Arden, had a continuous timeline and was still raced as 129 LNP in the U.S (as has been proved) then even the reshelled car has a significant history. If an Abingdon works Mini was reshelled before it won the Monte Carlo Rally by the works themselves does that make the car irrelevant ?

[ivor badger]

Just find it funny how you say it's okay to swap chassis numbers around if its "period". Did BMC offer replacement shells at the time? Only thing 1071 about the car is the tag included. It even has a 1275 speedo. You know all this info is a story unless that chassis number can be tied to a reg.

Replacement shells were available from dealers and it was not uncommon to reshell new cars that had been damaged in road accidents. Don't know about mid 60s, but if you bought a new shell in 1970, it always came as an S shell except for the filler hole not being cut for the RH tank.

Swapping racing car identities has been going on for years and recreating new cars fom chassis plates is quite common and possibly more prevalent now with the increase in historic car values. In the road haulage industry in the 60s and swapping vehicle identities was common in the days of A,B and C licences.

[mniwagn]

Yes reshelled before a special event is important. Problem I see with this is it has two heritage certs for one car. I guess we don't know when it was swapped/reshelled. Could have even happened in the States. If it is a special car its a shame its lost its reg proof. Honestly genuine should be black and white. I have a California title and heritage certificate for a 1275 S in green fs if someone would like to build a car.

[Pete]

By the way, just a little circumstantial evidence here to add to the huge list of coincidences... the 129 LNP rally car and the race car evidently have the same unusual rear view mirror and exactly the same bonnet clips in the same position. So that would suggest together with Rachel's car having the roof light hole still in place that the car was indeed reshelled whilst still a racer in the UK.

There's still lots more to come on this I'm sure but throughout any of this research there hasn't been one piece of the jigsaw that HASN'T pointed toward 129 LNP. If you look into most cars like this that are discovered 50 years after first being raced/rallied whatever at some point there's a part of the jigsaw that just doesn't fit, even with a genuine car and certainly with a wonky one within a short space of time. This list of 'coincidences' is now very convincing :

Only one of the 32 Austin 1071's in Surf Blue went to the Stourbridge area by the time Rachel's did.
According to the Mk1 S registrar of the MCR 129 LNP was built the same day Rachel's was and has it recorded as having the same chassis number.
Rachel's has Arden Electric Blue paint all over with Silver roof evident under the current paint
Rachel's has a roof light hole as 129 LNP did on the Monte plus the same trim and brackets 129 LNP would have had.
The Monte car is also Electric Blue and Silver
The Monte car also has the same odd rear view mirror and identical bonnet clips as the race car
Steve Neal stopped racing 129 LNP in late '65 (as a 1275) JUST before he sold it to the U.S
Hopkirk/Manton raced a 1275 Mini at Sebring in early '66, ( a photo of this car needs to be found )
Steve Neal races his new car LBF 595D in mid '66
129 LNP is recorded as having raced elsewhere in the U.S in '66
Rachel's car was supposedly raced at Sebring in '66 as told by a previous owner (before Rachel knew any of the above)

I still need to push Neal if I can on getting more info and still waiting to hear from Seeney who looked after the Arden cars plus the Sprinzel race seat in Rachel's car may well be of some significance yet. There also has to be photographic proof somewhere of the car Hopkirk/Manton raced at Sebring in 1966.