The ‘other’ Longman GT

[Pete]

Hope to pop along to Mini Mine’s open day at Longton (Stoke on Trent) next Saturday where they’ll have the ex Patrick Motors museum car on display, the car recently sold for a bargain price via Bonhams under the erroneous description of a replica racing car but I firmly believe to be the car that Richard Longman won the 1978 British Saloon Car Championship with.

[Jason]

It’s nearly on my doorstep and my weekend off work, so may well pop over myself. They have bagged a real bargain there

[Pete]

Makes such a refreshing change though doesn’t it, someone got a genuinely important racing car for a song because it was under/erroneously described when so often with famous competition Minis it’s the total opposite. It’s a great story! I do hear it’s not going to be raced but preserved and used.

[Jason]

If the complete history of the car had been documented at the time of sale it would have probably gone to a collector with deep pockets and tucked away in a collection.
Good to hear it will be used so that other people get to see it and appreciate part of mini history, I am sure it will generate a lot of attention on the day.
Hats of to Nick and co for being the new custodians of a proven winner.

[mab01uk]

So who got their historical research wrong....the Patrick Motors museum or Bonhams Specialist, Head of Research maybe?
Either way the seller must now be feeling a bit miffed!
https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/28307/ ... -no-18330/

I can't remember exactly what BMW paid for their 'other' (1979 winner) Longman GT in 2016 but the Coy's estimate at the time was £130,000-£160,000.

Sporting Minis.
So here’s a question :
https://www.facebook.com/thesportingmin ... cale=en_GB

[r.tec]

Richard Longman/Patrick Motors built two cars, one for racing and one as a show car. From outside the two GTs looked identical. And for obvious reasons the show car was always declared as the championships winning car. What else should they have said? "Well, this is a copy of the real championship car. We cannot show the real car with its little dings and dongs that come to a competitin car anyway."

[Pete]

Richard Longman/Patrick Motors built two cars, one for racing and one as a show car. From outside the two GTs looked identical. And for obvious reasons the show car was always declared as the championships winning car. What else should they have said? "Well, this is a copy of the real championship car. We cannot show the real car with its little dings and dongs that come to a competitin car anyway."

That’s very much how the car was described when it went to auction, and there’s no reason to have doubted it other than the fact that two cars were pictured at the circuits and that in the 1979 Tony Dron Autosport article he clearly states that Longman built a new car for 1979 and the 1978 championship winning car was retained by PMG, something that’s been corroborated by a couple of people close to Longman, and stacks up when you examine photographs of the period, the two cars were slightly different. The “show car’ as it was described was way more than a race car from outside, it was inside! Down to the smallest detail and even wear and tear. So that’s where I’m coming from, Where did you get your information from if you don’t me asking?

[Pete]

The Autosport article ..

[r.tec]

Oh, I cannot remember where I read it, but it was only a few months ago. Would need to search the internet to verify.

[Hipwell]

So who got their historical research wrong....the Patrick Motors museum or Bonhams Specialist, Head of Research maybe?
Either way the seller must now be feeling a bit miffed!
https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/28307/ ... -no-18330/

I can't remember exactly what BMW paid for their 'other' (1979 winner) Longman GT in 2016 but the Coy's estimate at the time was £130,000-£160,000.

Sporting Minis.
So here’s a question :
https://www.facebook.com/thesportingmin ... cale=en_GB

Its a very long story but the current custodian of what remained of the Patrick Collection believed and was advised what the auction description said. We viewed the car a couple of years ago and thought at the time they were sitting on something far more special than they believed.

The Sporting Mini's Facebook post even had an associate of Bonhams comment on it saying they were told it was a "shopping mall (Display) car" but had suspicions that might have been more. He soon went quiet when asked questions.

Funds from the sale were going to the Patrick Foundation which has done quite a bit for local motor museums in terms of donations and funding, so thats who's really missing out. Very poor from Bonhams at the end of the day.

There is something on this exact car remaining there now, that is seen on period 1978 photos showing it was indeed used in competition.

[r.tec]

For your intrest only:

Longman PMG 1275GT @ Mini 25 Donington 1984:

1984 (40)kl.jpg

1989 Patrick Motor Museum:

145 (11)_Kopie kl.jpg

1999 Mini 40 Silverstone, the PMG-1275GT sitting opposite of my own racing Mini:

347 (24)_Kopie.jpg

[Pete]

The Sporting Mini's Facebook post even had an associate of Bonhams comment on it saying they were told it was a "shopping mall (Display) car" but had suspicions that might have been more. He soon went quiet when asked questions.

Funds from the sale were going to the Patrick Foundation which has done quite a bit for local motor museums in terms of donations and funding, so thats who's really missing out. Very poor from Bonhams at the end of the day.

There is something on this exact car remaining there now, that is seen on period 1978 photos showing it was indeed used in competition.

I did speak to the auctioneer myself a couple of days after the auction and he’d already read my story about it on Facebook, as had Richard Hudson Evans (as you mention) who’s very close with Bonhams, it’s his job to be! However, to be fair to them it was all too late in the day to have changed anything. They could only present the car with the information the seller had given them. To be honest I wasn’t even confident enough about it to bid higher than the winning bidder, albeit I did bid! The main reason for that was that I’d only been made aware of it by Nick Hunter’s post on here shortly before the auction so didn’t really have chance to get all my ducks in a row otherwise I’d have definitely bid higher!! It was very poorly publicised, maybe because it was very close to the much better publicised Goodwood sale, either way well done to the buyer I say, just wish it was me!!

[Pete]

Just watching Fake or Fortune on BBC1. I never knew this, if you buy a piece of art in France with dubious or misdescribed history and later prove it to be genuine (bit like this car) the seller by law can force you to hand it back! . Wonder if it works the other way round!?

[Pete]

Spent a really interesting morning having a look at it thanks to Nick at MiniMine near Stoke. Needs some fettling but It’s in great shape generally, found a few bits and pieces inside the car and a few battle scars. Richard Longman was at the auction apparently and verified the car in person post auction as his 1978 racer. The scuttle damage is when the bonnet flew up after the pins were left unclipped!

[Pete]

Check out the German scrutineering sticker from 1978 when Longman and Pitcher were both invited to race over there , still in situ today

[Pete]

You can even see that sticker here at Oulton..