Pre verto clutch question for perusal

[Joel Welsh 4769VU]

I've just gotten my car running again after putting everything back together.

The original clutch issue was a slipping clutch due to an oil seal leak. This was 2010. When i first pulled it apart. At the time, i could use the clutch and the car moved, how i found it slipping.

Fast forward to now. Seals replaced, everythings back together. I have no clutch.

Which is to say- i cant engage the clutch when running. Car won't go in gear.

Engine off, she'll shift thru gears fine.

Now... i have a memory of pulling a piece out the the wok assembly- that looked like a metal cylinder with a lip on it. It was between the bearing and the pressure diaphragm.

And of course, i don't have it.

Every diagram, assembly I've seen of a pre-verto assembly doesn't show one. I've not seen one for sale.

I've seen something similiar to it on a verto assembly, but its slightly different from memory.

Am i daft? Or is there something like it somewhere?

No matter what adjustments i make to the clutch arm or end nuts... i get no joy from the throwout bearing. No clutch. It's as if its not even close to touching the diaphragm.

I may be looking at pulling it apart and putting in a new setup.

Anyone?

[1071bob]

What type of clutch do you have, coil spring or diaphragm? picture of the two assemblies attached.

[Joel Welsh 4769VU]

Diaphragm is what mine is sir.

Which is why i didn't worry about it when reassembling it, ten or so years later. I had read up some by that time. And pulling my parts out of storage- looked to be i had all on hand.

But i have this nagging memory of that weird piece in hand.

All my research says it's a moot point, that it's not used in the pre verto setup.

And that points me in the direction of worn clutch arm, bearing, I've a new pin in it as it looked grooved.

But what messes with my head is that it worked prior to tear down back in 2010. And the car has literally sat since.

Photo is my actual setup.

[iain1967s]

This, #13 on the diagram ?
http://www.minispares.com/product/class ... U1564.aspx

[timmy201]

Does the clutch arm move when you press the pedal?

Common problems include:
Seals worn in master
Seals worn in slave
Insufficient fluid or needs bleeding or leaky hose
Clevis pin missing or worn on master
Slave running out of travel (you can check by pulling the boot off)
Worn clevis on pushrod
Worn clevis on clutch arm
Clutch arm ball bent, worn or broken
Clutch stop bolt incorrectly adjusted
Too much gap between throw out bearing and diaphragm
Clutch plate installed backwards
Clutch plate frozen on primary gear splines

[Joel Welsh 4769VU]

This?
http://www.minispares.com/product/class ... U1564.aspx

It was very similiar.
I looked at that. From memory it was a little thinner in diameter looking, without the smaller holes in the top lip. But yes sir.

Doesn't make sense though, right?

[iain1967s]

That part #13 is only used on verto. Pre-verto only has the release bearing which runs directly on the plate at the end of the diaphragm.

[Joel Welsh 4769VU]

I had a thought.
Is it possible to mix up parts?

Could a verto throwout bearing shaft have been used in my car? Would that have been a shorter throwout bearing length?

Looking at diagrams and the stubbiness of the verto arm- the hole in my shaft the the clutch arm ball goes into... seems overly elongated.
Wondering... hmm.

Just thinking.

[Joel Welsh 4769VU]

Does the clutch arm move when you press the pedal?

Common problems include:
Seals worn in master
Seals worn in slave
Insufficient fluid or needs bleeding or leaky hose
Clevis pin missing or worn on master
Slave running out of travel (you can check by pulling the boot off)
Worn clevis on pushrod
Worn clevis on clutch arm
Clutch arm ball bent, worn or broken
Clutch stop bolt incorrectly adjusted
Too much gap between throw out bearing and diaphragm
Clutch plate installed backwards
Clutch plate frozen on primary gear splines

Clutch arm moves.
I had to pull the clutch m/c apart and clean it out.
Fresh bleed of system and fluid.
Master pin not missing. Looks ok.
Arm ball does not look bent is not broken. Has some slight wear, but not actually bad.
Clutch stop bolt adjustment makes no difference in operation. Set at .020, set at .000 set anywhere... it doesnt work.

The gap between throwout bearing and diaghphram is what really worries me! Lol.

Clutch plate installation was double, triple checked. So i hope its not backwards. (Fingers crossed)

Frozen on splines? What would cause this?

[timmy201]

Some clutch plates are marked as “gearbox side” which is the opposite of the engine side. It can be a bit confusing on a mini as the engine and gearbox are both on the “same side”

If the splines on the primary gear or clutch plate are a bit corroded or stiff they can get stuck together and the clutch won’t work properly. The clutch disc can also stick to the flywheel or pressure plate

There’s a good visual guide here
https://www.moke.com.au/in-the-garage/g ... the-clutch

[Joel Welsh 4769VU]

Very clean description there.
Thank you.

Mine has the AP race/rally disc in it.
One side of the the clutch disc has a lip that protrudes out. This side was through the friction ring on the gearbox side. If flipped- the lip interfered with the flywheel and wouldn't fit together. This was the original configuration when i pulled it apart... and how i put her back together.

Thats why i was asking about the clutch plate being frozen on the primary gear.

I'm of the mind to just replace everything from the diaphragm out. Then i know it's all set.

Mini mania has a kit with everything but throwout bearing. Arm, shaft, all clevis pins, master rod, spring, tab... only problem its out of stock.

I'll be looking at a month wait as usual.

[Spider]

Take the timing inspection cover off and see if you can see the Diaphragm moving.

If it is moving a good 1.0 mm or more, then I'd say the Primary Gear is locked or pinched on the Crank.

[Joel Welsh 4769VU]

Take the timing inspection cover off and see if you can see the Diaphragm moving.

If it is moving a good 1.0 mm or more, then I'd say the Primary Gear is locked or pinched on the Crank.

Will do.
Thanks all, as you can tell- I'm a guy that works problems in my head over nite til i figure em out.
Can't let it go til i see it.

Sorry to drive anybody nuts.

[timmy201]

I’ve heard good things about Wild Child classics in the USA for mini parts. Normally the stock is a bit quicker than mini mania

[Joel Welsh 4769VU]

I've looked at them before...

But this is the first time I've bought from them.
They had everything in stock.
Payday is tommorrow for me!

Ships in 1-5 business days.

Hopefully I'll be down to the... crux of this problem by the weekend.

[timmy201]

One trick I was told was to add a small washer between the plunger and the throw out bearing. You ideally want the bearing as close as possible to the clutch diaphragm without touching so that the slave starts close to the start of its travel with an unworn system. As the system wears in you’ll the slave will start its throw further and further out

6D4AD9D6-0AD2-4E60-B5D3-B15FDD46CEB6.jpeg

Mine started out with some worn components and as you can see on the left side of the photo the slave pushrod was nearly all the way extended at rest and it was running out of travel. After I replaced the arm, clevis and added the washer it was nice and close at the beginning of the travel

38CC9031-8B46-47AC-850B-7FE7FB9BD75D.jpeg

[johnv]

I thought the clutch plate could only go on one way?

[Catmint]

Might be an idea to have a read of this thread as well, could be as simple as lengthening the slave push rod

http://mk1-forum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5& ... clutch+arm

[Ronnie]

Very clean description there.
Thank you.

Mine has the AP race/rally disc in it.
One side of the the clutch disc has a lip that protrudes out. This side was through the friction ring on the gearbox side. If flipped- the lip interfered with the flywheel and wouldn't fit together. This was the original configuration when i pulled it apart... and how i put her back together.

Page 60 > https://mk1-performance-conversions.co. ... 5C(WM).pdf

[johnv]

Yes, the plate can only fit one way