Front wheel alignment toe out on the front wheels

[BLACKJACKф]

I know how to do the alignment I know the spec for the alignment is 1/16 of an inch toe out on the front. I know how to adjust the alignment but what I want to know is. I've done all this and it keeps pulling to the right. I know how to center the steering Rack but how do I know when the front wheels are correct. I've done the alignment it is exactly 1/16 of an inch toe out on the front but the car keeps pulling to the right and my steering wheel is not centered straight anymore. is there anything else that would cause this to happen. So if I take the Allen Bolt out of the steering rack put a set pin in so the steering rack doesn't move how do I then know that the wheels are straight?

Nothing is bent everything is brand new nothing is wrong with rear subframe

[Peter Laidler]

Last sentence re actual alignment with centralisation pin in place.

SIMPLE. Get a piece of decent smooth wood fix horizontally across tyre with a bungee rubber. Put a builders laser level along horizontal piece of wood to shine onto something at rear. Follow the laser light beam along from the light to the rear and the laser should run exactly parallel to the sill of the car body. Do the same to the other side.

That's how I have done it since laser lights were invented!
PS. When exactly parallel screw tie rod INTO the track rod end AT EACH SIDE a further 1/8th turn to give toe-out.

There was an article about this a few years ago under 'steering racks' Works a treat, every time

[Spider]

Pulling to one side or the other has nothing to do with toe adjustments.

Usually a Castor Rod is bent or the front bracket on the subframe is bent back.

There can be many other causes for this, but, be assured, it won't be to do with Toe Adjustment.

[Exminiman]

Presume you have checked all the tyre pressures are equal ?

[Aussie Bill B]

I know how to do the alignment I know the spec for the alignment is 1/16 of an inch toe out on the front. I know how to adjust the alignment but what I want to know is. I've done all this and it keeps pulling to the right. I know how to center the steering Rack but how do I know when the front wheels are correct. I've done the alignment it is exactly 1/16 of an inch toe out on the front but the car keeps pulling to the right and my steering wheel is not centered straight anymore. is there anything else that would cause this to happen. So if I take the Allen Bolt out of the steering rack put a set pin in so the steering rack doesn't move how do I then know that the wheels are straight?

Nothing is bent everything is brand new nothing is wrong with rear subframe

Are you asking how do you know that both wheels are pointing exactly straight ahead in relation to the car body and with rack and steering wheel centred before you adjust for toe-out?

For instance, it is possible to have 1/16th toe-out between the front edge and rear edge of the wheels, but both wheels could be pointing left (or right), causing the driver to pull the steering wheel to the right (or left) to compensate.

If this is the issue, Peter is on the right track but there is an easy method without lasers.

[Mini-geek]

Pulling to one side isn't caused by toe or steering centralisation.

Take it to someone with a hunter 4 wheel alignment and get them to check it.. it's the only real way to find out what isn't right.

Just because everything is new doesn't mean something isn't wrong

[1071 S]

For instance, it is possible to have 1/16th toe-out between the front edge and rear edge of the wheels, but both wheels could be pointing left (or right), causing the driver to pull the steering wheel to the right (or left) to compensate.
.......

Not really Bill (not if you follow the instructions properly). That's sort of back to front. Alignment is done relative to the centre line of the car....what ever method you use. You can't just adjust one side until you get the correct front to rear difference.

So the wheels will be correct. Having got the alignment correct you adjust the steering wheel to suit. What will happen, if the alignment is right, is that the car will track straight ahead (assuming a non cambered road) without any steering input (ie hands off the wheel) but the wheel may be twisted to one side.

The car may crab down the road but this is not the fault of the front alignment.

A good alignment shop will centre the wheel first, (ie centre the rack) then, if necessary, remove the wheel from the splines and reinstall it straight ahead, fix it in place and then do the alignment.

Cheers, Ian

[1071 S]

I know how to do the alignment I know the spec for the alignment is 1/16 of an inch toe out on the front. I know how to adjust the alignment but what I want to know is. I've done all this and it keeps pulling to the right. I know how to center the steering Rack but how do I know when the front wheels are correct. I've done the alignment it is exactly 1/16 of an inch toe out on the front but the car keeps pulling to the right and my steering wheel is not centered straight anymore. is there anything else that would cause this to happen. So if I take the Allen Bolt out of the steering rack put a set pin in so the steering rack doesn't move how do I then know that the wheels are straight?

Nothing is bent everything is brand new nothing is wrong with rear subframe

Are you asking how do you know that both wheels are pointing exactly straight ahead in relation to the car body and with rack and steering wheel centred before you adjust for toe-out?

For instance, it is possible to have 1/16th toe-out between the front edge and rear edge of the wheels, but both wheels could be pointing left (or right), causing the driver to pull the steering wheel to the right (or left) to compensate.

If this is the issue, Peter is on the right track but there is an easy method without lasers.

Not really Bill (not if you follow the instructions properly). That's sort of back to front. Alignment is done relative to the centre line of the car....what ever method you use. You can't just adjust one side until you get the correct front to rear difference.

So the wheels will be correct. Having got the alignment correct you adjust the steering wheel to suit. What will happen, if the alignment is right, is that the car will track straight ahead (assuming a non cambered road) without any steering input (ie hands off the wheel) but the wheel may be twisted to one side.

The car may crab down the road but this is not the fault of the front alignment.

A good alignment shop will centre the wheel first, (ie centre the rack) then, if necessary, remove the wheel from the splines and reinstall it straight ahead, fix it in place and then do the alignment.

Cheers, Ian

[whistler]

I would suggest you look at the castor angle of the front wheels. Check that the tie rod (from bottom arm forward to front of subframe) is not bent and the bushes are in good order. I had similar problems. Someone had fitted adjustable tie rods and not got it right. I didn't have access to a castor angle checker so I put standard tie rods back on with new bushes. Problem gone away.

[Aussie Bill B]

Not really Bill (not if you follow the instructions properly). That's sort of back to front. Alignment is done relative to the centre line of the car....what ever method you use. You can't just adjust one side until you get the correct front to rear difference.

So the wheels will be correct. Having got the alignment correct ...................................................
Cheers, Ian

That's exactly what I'm NOT saying.
I was going to suggest a simple way you can check both wheels are straight ahead BEFORE you adjust for toe.
You need 2 metal bars, 1 attached to each wheel, extending forward with wheel diameters marked on it.
First, set the wheels parallel (no toe yet) with same distance between front and rear of the wheels.
Then measure the diagonal distances - if the alignment is square, each diagonal should be the same. Adjust until they are the same.
Then add equal toe-out to each wheel.

[Peter Laidler]

I suggest that anone who puts up a comment regarding track-in on the forum, states quite clearly exactly which sort of rack they are talking about.

If it's the simple early no-need-to-centralise rack, then say so

Likewise, if it is the (slightly more) complicated FIXED pin centralised pinion type then say so.

THEY AIN'T THE SAME

It saves thick uneducated types like me from scratching my head wondering whether to answer or not - especially when you're not aware of what rack the questioner is talking about.

Or, maybe, steering and toe-in etc ought to be one of those taboo subjects, like Silicon Brake Fluid and waterless coolant - together with religion and politics. That you never discuss in your common room, polite society, mess or lodge

[Exminiman]

Might be worth merging these two threads, OP seems to of started two similar threads….

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36348

[Peter Laidler]

Good idea miniman. At the moment we've got TWO threads of misinformation, red herrings, fuzzy logic, irrelevance etc etc. When in reality it is very simple - or just simple....... Depending whether you've got an early rack or a pinned type later rack

[1071 S]

Peter,

as the Queen said to Alice "When I say something, the words mean what I mean them to mean; nothing more and nothing less..."

The original poster asked a (pretty straight forward) question ...and then claimed the answers didn't answer the question that he thought he might have asked....

The rest of the thread then provides information on how people solve the original non-question..... and there are many solutions that will solve the same problem. I have my own solution .... pay money

So I would disagree with your final qualification .... ("Depending whether you've got an early rack or a pinned type later rack"). Both kinds of rack are essentially the same in function but differ slightly in form. The alignment process is exactly the same for each (the rack/wheel centring process is different ..but irrelevant to alignment). You can swap one rack for the other with no noticeable difference (allegedly, you need to change the steering arms to suit (I did) but I know people who haven't and have not noticed any effect).

Centring the rack is irrelevant to alignment; the car will track straight whether or not the rack is in the middle. You really should centre the rack regardless of which sort you have because centring the rack will make turning circles even on both sides ..... but most wouldn't notice the difference (BTDT). And, the car will be more pleasant to drive if the steering wheel points straight ahead when going straight but that's about it. Neither will have any effect on tracking.

Cheers, Ian

[BAD942B]

years ago we used to get asked this question regularly, we often found the rear radius arms bent, just a little nudge bends them.
This causes the car to pull to one side or crab.

[Smithmaps]

Years ago, a friend bought a brand new Alfa Sud TI. (Front wheel drive like a big Mini)
He ran it in, and put his foot down and it pulled violently to the left.
He took it back to the dealer, who took it apart, pronounced it all mended and checked, and we drove it out of the garage.
Whereupon it pulled violently to the right!
Turned out to be the rolling radius of the brand new tyres were different, and they had put the front wheels on opposite sides. After some careful measuring the circumference with string, and swapping one of a similar size off the back, it pulled straight as a die.

Worth a look.
Guy