Smart motorways drive away classic car owners?

[mab01uk]

Classic car owners are taking detours to avoid smart motorways for fear of being hit from behind while stopped in live lanes.
Drivers of cars older than 25 years said motorways without a hard shoulder have ‘too many risks’ because their vehicles’ age makes them particularly susceptible to breaking down.
AA chief Edmund King said the Government and National Highways should ‘go back to the drawing board’ and return the inside lane of all-lane-running smart motorways to being a hard shoulder.
Alan Hames, who was a highways engineer for more than 50 years before retiring, said he takes detours to avoid smart motorways when driving his 1972 Jaguar E-Type. He added 26 miles to a return trip from his home in Northamptonshire to a recent car event in London by using the M40 – which has a hard shoulder – rather than the M1, which does not.
Breaking down on a smart motorway ‘brings too many risks for classic car owners’, the 80-year-old said. ‘I know many other classic car owners who take long detours to avoid these deadly smart motorway death traps. At least a hard shoulder gives drivers the option of getting to relative safety.’
Gaynor Cauter, editor of Jaguar Driver magazine, said: ‘I hear regularly from drivers of Jaguars – classic and modern – who are so frightened of breaking down on smart motorways that they make every effort to avoid them, and I include myself in that number,’ she said.
‘However, on some journeys, they are almost impossible to avoid.’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... wners.html

[johnv]

I never drive my minis on motorways these days. The modern 4x4 behemoths insulate their drivers so much from their surroundings that its just plain dangerous especially in adverse conditions.

[Exminiman]

I never drive my minis on motorways these days. The modern 4x4 behemoths insulate their drivers so much from their surroundings that its just plain dangerous especially in adverse conditions.

So true, I think the psychology is that the drivers feel too safe, somehow disconnected from any potential risk of an accident, the car will save me…… no matter what…..

In a similar vain, we watched these YouTube videos of Rufford Ford totally shocked ,by some of the drivers, they are effectively just driving into the river, maybe following SatNav, its just blind confidence, as you say dangerous….

https://youtu.be/Y1HHFXFN788

EDIT: If you search Rufford on YouTube, there are loads of vids…..

[snoopy64]

I’ll be honest, I don’t mind a standard motorway as I feel I’ve always got ‘somewhere to go’ but the A34 Winchester to the M40 now that’s a different story..don’t like that at all, 2 lanes, plenty of lorries and everything else doing 70plus

Smart motorways are nervy even in my day to day driving…

[surfblue63]

These Jag drivers must be a bag of nerves driving on a dual carriageway, let alone on a single carriageway with traffic coming in both directions.

If you think your car is going to breakdown then you shouldn't start your journey in it. Just stay at home, put your slippers on and read the Express or The Mail.

By the way, if anything that weighs 2.5 tonnes rear ends you at 70, no matter what your are in, it will be crushed.

The following contains footage of the result of a Honda CRV hitting a Perodua Myvi. It is eye opening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY168dB2bF4

This video contains scenes that some may find distressing.

[mab01uk]

These Jag drivers must be a bag of nerves driving on a dual carriageway, let alone on a single carriageway with traffic coming in both directions.

If you think your car is going to breakdown then you shouldn't start your journey in it. Just stay at home, put your slippers on and read the Express or The Mail.

Don't agree with all your points....most single carriageways and dual carriageways may not have a hard shoulder but there are nearly always grass verges, pavements, cycle tracks, side roads, lay-bys, bus stops, driveways to pull over into and get off the carriageway. On smart motorways there is just a barrier and if you are lucky at a distance a layby/refuge (if not already occupied by a large lorry, etc). No one can predict if their car is going to break down or get a puncture before they start their journey! When stranded by the nearside 'smart' barrier in live lane how do you open your passenger side doors to exit....especially with young children or senior aged passengers needing to get out quickly as lorries bear down?

[surfblue63]

The point is, it is not the roads that are unsafe, it is the poor standards of driving, the poor maintenance of vehicles and the total lack of any retraining that drivers require to drive on the roads.
There are a lot of types of work were your are required to take tests after a certain amount of time. Just to work on a building site in any role you have to take a theory test on health and safety every 5 years. I think everyone should, at least, take a driving theory test every five years, but it would be better if they had a practical test too. The last time I did a vehicle test was in 1995 when I passed my motorcycle test, and the last time my driving was assessed was in 1998 when I thought about becoming a driving instructor. I have never done a theory test for driving, but I have had to do numerous theory tests so I can go and work on a building site and sit in an office and not use any heavy equipment.
Unfortunately the Smart Motorways have been much maligned because they had some flaws in the design and usage, but I think they are just as dangerous as any other non-motorway roads. Plenty of drivers just ignore the red Xs when posted in lanes, is that the fault of the road? Plenty also ignore the posted speed limits on the gantries, is that the fault of the road?
The first bit of Smart Motorway that I used regularly was the M42, south of Birmingham. This was a nightmare of a road before the Smart Motorway was installed, but after it was much better as the traffic was slowed to a speed that prevented the stop start wave that would occur with the unrestricted 70mph limit. At rush hour it could take 45 minutes or more to get from teh M6 junction to the M40 junction. With the Smart Motorway installed and working it usually take less than 30 minutes, sometimes less than 20 to get through.

Unfortunately Smart Motorways are being ridiculed because of the knee jerk reaction of The Daily Mail to someone if the Jag owners club who probably did their driving test back in 1962.

Finally, very very few breakdowns cause a car to be immobile, but, unfortunately, a lot of drivers are not confident enough to drive a car a short distance when it has developed a fault and get themselves to a place of safety. The last time I had a rapid deflation was on the A42 between Donington and Tamworth. t was on the nearside rear. I slowed with hazards on a drove to the next lay-by. I could have stopped immediately, but I would have been in a live lane with a posted limit of 70mph without the luxury of monitored CCTV and overhead warning signs. Why did I not pull onto the verge, well most of them are soft and render a jack useless.

[Exminiman]

The point is, it is not the roads that are unsafe, it is the poor standards of driving, the poor maintenance of vehicles and the total lack of any retraining that drivers require to drive on the roads.
There are a lot of types of work were your are required to take tests after a certain amount of time. Just to work on a building site in any role you have to take a theory test on health and safety every 5 years. I think everyone should, at least, take a driving theory test every five years, but it would be better if they had a practical test too. The last time I did a vehicle test was in 1995 when I passed my motorcycle test, and the last time my driving was assessed was in 1998 when I thought about becoming a driving instructor. I have never done a theory test for driving, but I have had to do numerous theory tests so I can go and work on a building site and sit in an office and not use any heavy equipment.
Unfortunately the Smart Motorways have been much maligned because they had some flaws in the design and usage, but I think they are just as dangerous as any other non-motorway roads. Plenty of drivers just ignore the red Xs when posted in lanes, is that the fault of the road? Plenty also ignore the posted speed limits on the gantries, is that the fault of the road?
The first bit of Smart Motorway that I used regularly was the M42, south of Birmingham. This was a nightmare of a road before the Smart Motorway was installed, but after it was much better as the traffic was slowed to a speed that prevented the stop start wave that would occur with the unrestricted 70mph limit. At rush hour it could take 45 minutes or more to get from teh M6 junction to the M40 junction. With the Smart Motorway installed and working it usually take less than 30 minutes, sometimes less than 20 to get through.

Unfortunately Smart Motorways are being ridiculed because of the knee jerk reaction of The Daily Mail to someone if the Jag owners club who probably did their driving test back in 1962.

Seriously? would you want to be an AA man (any recovery person) recovering a broken down car on a Smart Motorway ?

EDIT: thought would try and find an unbiased (as far as can) view on the internet. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/arti ... -motorways

Granted though, just because people think it, it doesn't make it true….

PS I do not read the Daily mail either

[surfblue63]

I wouldn't want to be an AA man recovering a car from a two lane dualled A road either.

My point is Smart Motorways are no more dangerous than any other non-Motorway dual carriageway, but they do have monitored CCTV and overhead illuminated signage.


PS I don't think the AA would recover you from a live lane, I think they would wait for the Highways Agency people to tow you to a place of safety.

[tweedy998]

My thoughts on this are; if you have a well maintained classic that you are confident of driving then any sort of roadway should not be a cause for concern or one to be avoided.

That said, sometimes if I'm route planning I will choose to plot a course which takes in A and B roads over motorway sections, purely because they offer a much more involving and enjoyable driving and travelling (scenery, interesting places to stop for pictures, coffee etc) experience. Sometimes though, that's not always practical, so there will nearly always be some sort of motorway stint on a longer journey, and the ones near us are virtually all of the 'smart' variety. I've not found it an issue, as the performance of our 998 Cooper is more than capable of being part of modern traffic, and I'm confident in the mechanicals of the car to complete the journey.

I've not read the linked article, but the few quotes from it in the OP do strike me a little of one of those over-sensationalised Daily Mail items.

[hanlminiman]

I wouldn't want to be an AA man recovering a car from a two lane dualled A road either.
My point is Smart Motorways are no more dangerous than any other non-Motorway dual carriageway, but they do have monitored CCTV and overhead illuminated signage.
PS I don't think the AA would recover you from a live lane, I think they would wait for the Highways Agency people to tow you to a place of safety.

Many years ago I broke down in my recently restored Mini with a lack of spark but managed to pull off onto the hard shoulder of the M25 just beyond the A10 tunnel going anti clockwise around the right hand bend - during rush hour at dusk. I was terrified so called the AA and stayed well back behind the Armco. The patrol man arrived very quickly and was very upset that he could not fix the problem on the hard shoulder and decided to tow the car to the next junction on a fixed bar behind his van. Luckily, I was able to get him to tow the car to a friend's garage in Potter's Bar. I'll never forget that journey - no vision other than 2 yellow doors. It turned out that when the sheath was cut it also nipped the positive and negative wires which we only identified in the dark garage when we tried to start it causing a short.
My friend was also my navigator and we also broke down with no clutch on the M5 as we entered a roadwork section in Somerset, but I could negotiate between the cones, as I was used to doing that on the rally we had retired from with clutch selection problems.(Pivot mount for clutch arm broke!)
The moral of my story is that if we all wish to enjoy driving our Minis on all types of roads we should at least add hazard lights and perhaps a high intensity brake light like the last 500 Rover Mini Coopers.
To conclude. Last time I took my 1997 mpi for its MOT it spluttered and the engine stopped on the way on a country lane with "white van man" in close pursuit. Luckily the hazard warning light switch worked and I was safe.
Wishing you all a very safe 2023. Keep your wheels in line and accelerate out of danger, if appropriate.
Cliff
ps I will always remember a road trip back from a very icy sideways moment in the mountains near Geneva in 1973 returning from a ski resort. On the motorway approaching Geneva, at motorway speeds, the traffic suddenly stopped ahead of us and my Norwegian driver/host braked hard and hit the hazard switch at the same time. The following cars knew exactly what to do.
pps Maybe periodic driving assessment tests is the way forward rather than the current "I've passed my test so I know how to drive" mentality.

[mab01uk]

It does not matter what way you spin it, the occupants of a broken down stationary car sitting in a motorway live lane are in much more danger of being rear ended than on an old style hard shoulder......a red cross sign is not going to ensure your safety.....no matter how much re-training of drivers there will be plenty who never have a clue and some car/lorry drivers will still be texting, etc...the Police were on TV recently in a special lorry to catch HGV drivers on camera at the same cab height, some were caught watching movies on laptops while driving!
I believe electric vehicles come to a complete stop when broken down and then have to be lifted by a suitable rescue vehicle which won't help matters...
The AA, RAC rescue services and most Police motorway patrols are against smart motorways and think they are dangerous, not to mention the delays for emergency vehicles and ambulances trying to reach the scene of an incident with no clear hard shoulder.....they are just a cheap way of widening a motorway while dressing it up with the words 'Smart motorway' as a way to sell it to the public.

[goff]

My point is Smart Motorways are no more dangerous than any other non-Motorway dual carriageway, but they do have monitored CCTV and overhead illuminated signage.

What a load of bollocks Surfblue , try telling that someone who has lost a loved one through no hard shoulder on the not so smart motorway , the cctv is often not working either.

[surfblue63]

What a load of bollocks Surfblue , try telling that someone who has lost a loved one through no hard shoulder on the not so smart motorway , the cctv is often not working either.

Thanks to your response Goff I will no longer be part of this forum.

[AndyPen]

Am I the only one disappointed to read this?

Sadly, the topic raises quite some emotions, and I know that when my alternator failed on my Cosworth on the way home once I couldn't wait to find somewhere to pull in. It was pretty frightening for a few minutes, wondering what state the battery might be in. Because of the electrics, for some reason no light came on the warn me, using the indicators gave the game away.

On its last trip to the NEC it really got to me again - around Gloucester way. Not an experience I want to have again.

[Exminiman]

Come in Surfblue, your contributions will be sorely missed, dont let one comment stop you.

Reading the comment again, I really dont think the swear word was aimed at you, more to give gravitas to the comment…..

[Glacier white]

It's not a matter of classic or brand new, or electric or whatever cars. All of them can fail without prior warning when least expected, so there must always be enough space to make an emergency stop with some safety margin.

[goff]

What a load of bollocks Surfblue , try telling that someone who has lost a loved one through no hard shoulder on the not so smart motorway , the cctv is often not working either.

Thanks to your response Goff I will no longer be part of this forum.

Bloody hell Surfblue , Sorry if i have upset you , i'll remove the comment , don't go and leave because we don't agree on a subject .

[Striped shirt]

I regularly go up the M20 from Maidstone area upto the M26 and onwards. This bit is mostly Smart Motorway.
The sheer volume of lorries that have come up from Dover is simply staggering at times. The simple truth is that, for whatever reason, if there is an emergency, vehicles have nowhere to go. I've seen some serious incidents myself in that area.
These issues are obviously not caused by the road user, but by the road design. On the M20 there are very few emergency pull-off areas.
Even the best kept vehicle can have an act of random. I had fitted 4 news tyres to my daily driver (Rover) and had a front blow out on a dual carageway on the way to work. No warning, just went pop, and no, I did not hit a pot hole...

[Pete]

The idea that a breakdown is always avoidable or that it’s inherently down to poor maintenance is a much more simplistic view than I’ve got! Blimey, I can think of a miriad of potential problems that could bring you to a stop on a motorway, a rotor arm going, a fuel leak, electrical gremlin, you name it, I wouldn’t want to be brought to a stop in a live lane of a motorway in anything, let alone a Classic Mini and no I don’t like the idea of smart motorways. I’ve personally seen cars totally not see / ignore those matrix signs and carry on regardless! Frightening