At The Auctions

[Old English White]

An Allegro hearse
Why does the front end - around the grille - look so crooked on that '59 Mini

[Pete]

The toxic potato nobody wants to keep very long is back once again. Round and round it goes, who’s pants will it pull down next nobody knows! But of course the experts who could stop it will just sit on their hands as usual with the standard statement that “well everybody knows about that” and “it’s a lovely car” which we all know and nobody disputes. Nuff said.

https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1511423

This auction description is a work of fiction and a pretty outrageous attempt to deceive a potential buyer into parting with a big lump of cash based on a highly misleading description of a car that has absolutely NO connection with DJB 93B the works RAC winner. Are the MCR going to step in and stop this or sit on their hands as usual then complain about it afterwards? I think we all know the answer.

“Of all the Minis we have consigned to The NEC Classic Sale, 'DJB 93B' might be the most significant of them all. ⁠
⁠
Silverstone Auctions are delighted to offer, the only Mini ever to win the RAC Rally, in the hands of Rauno Aaltonen. Following its success at the 1965 RAC Rally, Tony Fall drove the Mini to victory in the Scottish Rally the following season. ⁠
⁠
'DJB 93B' enjoyed a retirement shortly after its win in Scotland, until 1996, when it was passed to Phil Short, World Rally Team Manager for Toyota and Mitsubishi, who commissioned a full restoration to factory works spec. ⁠
⁠
While other ex-works cars come onto the open market from time to time, many of them are likely to cost very much more and few are likely to have been prepared to the standard of authenticity to be found on this car.⁠
⁠
This marvellous little Mini has been rebuilt as far as has been practical to the original specification in which it would have started the 1965 RAC Rally.⁠”



⁠

[Pandora]

I think that snippet could indeed mislead the uneducated buyer, Pete, but I would say that the passage in the full description is not too bad - the Auctioneer's job is to sell the car as well as possible, and the buyer's job is to do their own research - on that basis, I think the following passage is not a misleading reflection of the car (and very carefully worded):

'DJB 93B' rolled into retirement from Abingdon Competitions Department service during the 1966 Gulf London Rally and was not seen again until 1986. By 1991, ownership had transferred from clubman Jeff Wilson to Mini Machine of Darlington, from whom the project was taken on in 1996 by the highly respected and very successful Works Rally co-driver and subsequent World Rally Team Manager (Toyota, Mitsubishi etc) Phil Short, who commissioned a total restoration to original 'Works' specification. A correct and fully restored Mk1 body shell was employed, though with double-skinned exhaust tunnel, floor under driver's feet and cross-member, strengthened bulkhead steady bar bracket, steering rack mounts and rear shocker mounts all being to Abingdon specification. Although run initially in hydrolastic form, like most works Minis of the day, the car was given 'dry' suspension in period and is in this form today. Parts were sourced by marque specialist John Kelly while Simon Wheatcroft's workshop was responsible for the detailed build.

If a buyer doesn't do their homework, I think they would struggle to argue this was misrepresentation? Quite what was restored, well, I think we all know, and it came from Swansea.

As you know, I share many of your views on the dreaded red and white cars, I've sold a couple (and Abingdon Healeys), researched a few others, and I think this car has been well documented, and had more misleading descriptions in the past.

I also share many of your views on those who have had a hand in the current issues surrounding these cars.

Al

[66Traveller]

An Allegro hearse
Why does the front end - around the grille - look so crooked on that '59 Mini

Yes the grille is sitting proud of the moustache - something about it does look the wrong shape...

[surfblue63]

The front view show what is most likely the problem, the grille surround has been fitted on the wonk, a bit low on the right, which has also impacted the moustache. probably be a pain to fix if all the clip holes are out of alignment.

[Exminiman]

The front view show what is most likely the problem, the grille surround has been fitted on the wonk, a bit low on the right, which has also impacted the moustache. probably be a pain to fix if all the clip holes are out of alignment.

Nothing really seems to line up at all, maybe the front panel has been re-fitted on the piss ?

[Pete]

I think that snippet could indeed mislead the uneducated buyer, Pete, but I would say that the passage in the full description is not too bad - the Auctioneer's job is to sell the car as well as possible, and the buyer's job is to do their own research - on that basis, I think the following passage is not a misleading reflection of the car (and very carefully worded):

'DJB 93B' rolled into retirement from Abingdon Competitions Department service during the 1966 Gulf London Rally and was not seen again until 1986. By 1991, ownership had transferred from clubman Jeff Wilson to Mini Machine of Darlington, from whom the project was taken on in 1996 by the highly respected and very successful Works Rally co-driver and subsequent World Rally Team Manager (Toyota, Mitsubishi etc) Phil Short, who commissioned a total restoration to original 'Works' specification. A correct and fully restored Mk1 body shell was employed, though with double-skinned exhaust tunnel, floor under driver's feet and cross-member, strengthened bulkhead steady bar bracket, steering rack mounts and rear shocker mounts all being to Abingdon specification. Although run initially in hydrolastic form, like most works Minis of the day, the car was given 'dry' suspension in period and is in this form today. Parts were sourced by marque specialist John Kelly while Simon Wheatcroft's workshop was responsible for the detailed build.

If a buyer doesn't do their homework, I think they would struggle to argue this was misrepresentation? Quite what was restored, well, I think we all know, and it came from Swansea.

As you know, I share many of your views on the dreaded red and white cars, I've sold a couple (and Abingdon Healeys), researched a few others, and I think this car has been well documented, and had more misleading descriptions in the past.

I also share many of your views on those who have had a hand in the current issues surrounding these cars.

Al

You’re kidding Al! They very clearly say it’s the car that won the 1965 RAC Rally, and that it was rebuilt after “retirement”. Neither statement is true! There was no car to rebuild and that’s not the RAC winner! Can’t be any simpler. I could fill a book with waffle about how well built it is, how correct it is, how lovely it looks but it’s still got zero connection to the RAC winner, a car which does not survive!
This is like the Dead Parrot sketch!
Jeff Wilson who stuck the number on his rally car , John Kelly and even Peter Browning himself were all pretty clear about it from day one! Seems very clear to me, maybe it’s the tons of wonga involved every time it sells that seems to cloud others views!

[mk1coopers]

It's like the bumper is up and the grill is down on the 59 front on photo, very square where the front panel bonnet landing meets the wing as well

[mk1]

I think that snippet could indeed mislead the uneducated buyer, Pete, but I would say that the passage in the full description is not too bad - the Auctioneer's job is to sell the car as well as possible, and the buyer's job is to do their own research - on that basis, I think the following passage is not a misleading reflection of the car (and very carefully worded):

'DJB 93B' rolled into retirement from Abingdon Competitions Department service during the 1966 Gulf London Rally and was not seen again until 1986. By 1991, ownership had transferred from clubman Jeff Wilson to Mini Machine of Darlington, from whom the project was taken on in 1996 by the highly respected and very successful Works Rally co-driver and subsequent World Rally Team Manager (Toyota, Mitsubishi etc) Phil Short, who commissioned a total restoration to original 'Works' specification. A correct and fully restored Mk1 body shell was employed, though with double-skinned exhaust tunnel, floor under driver's feet and cross-member, strengthened bulkhead steady bar bracket, steering rack mounts and rear shocker mounts all being to Abingdon specification. Although run initially in hydrolastic form, like most works Minis of the day, the car was given 'dry' suspension in period and is in this form today. Parts were sourced by marque specialist John Kelly while Simon Wheatcroft's workshop was responsible for the detailed build.

If a buyer doesn't do their homework, I think they would struggle to argue this was misrepresentation? Quite what was restored, well, I think we all know, and it came from Swansea.

As you know, I share many of your views on the dreaded red and white cars, I've sold a couple (and Abingdon Healeys), researched a few others, and I think this car has been well documented, and had more misleading descriptions in the past.

I also share many of your views on those who have had a hand in the current issues surrounding these cars.

Al

You’re kidding Al! They very clearly say it’s the car that won the 1965 RAC Rally, and that it was rebuilt after “retirement”. Neither statement is true! There was no car to rebuild and that’s not the RAC winner! Can’t be any simpler. I could fill a book with waffle about how well built it is, how correct it is, how lovely it looks but it’s still got zero connection to the RAC winner, a car which does not survive!
This is like the Dead Parrot sketch!
Jeff Wilson who stuck the number on his rally car , John Kelly and even Peter Browning himself were all pretty clear about it from day one! Seems very clear to me, maybe it’s the tons of wonga involved every time it sells that seems to cloud others views!

Someone get me a Horlicks I'm going to bed ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

[mk1]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334597349771 ... name=11002

I reckon someone got a bargain!

[surfblue63]

South West results

https://www.swva.co.uk/auction-category ... ount=23419


1959 Austin 850 No Sale. Estimate was £10,000-£12,000.

https://www.swva.co.uk/classic-car/austin-mini-850/

Allegro Estate. £3,100 + Buyers Premium, so £3,410 all in. Is that a record for an Allegro?

https://www.swva.co.uk/classic-car/aust ... -sdl-1979/


PS Looking at the recent Brightwells sale, are prices dropping, as there appears to be some real bargains there.

https://www.brightwells.com/timed-sale/5244

[Brynmor]

The GT4 Celica and 205 Gti look a steal, likewise the A40’s

[mk1]

It certainly looks to me that prices are decidedly on the slide.

[66Traveller]

Yes - looks to be across the board too

[Costafortune]

'DJB 93B' enjoyed a retirement shortly after its win in Scotland
⁠

In an envelope.

It's too well known that it's a wrong'un, too many folk know where it came from - some us were there at the time and saw it being built.

[66Traveller]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334597349771 ... name=11002

I reckon someone got a bargain!

I agree

[Old English White]

IF it sold His very early Cooper S was "sold" at the end of auctions a few times wasn't it - only to re-appear again. And again....

[Therapy282]

Hi Don’t no how to do link but there is a rough 59 at anglia ?

[Old English White]

That really IS rough

[Ronnie]

Hi Don’t no how to do link but there is a rough 59 at anglia ?

Copy and Paste then it is done