A small update

[Bitsilly]

Gudday!
A little news about the wannabe hitler youth of the DVLA (they insisted I have a to pass an IVA because of drilling a hole or holes in my minis boot).
They rejected my initial appeal on no grounds whatsoever.
My MP has got involved and has written a letter but historically that is not enough to worry those paper pushers.
The bad news is that this nonsense really is being pushed by the DVLA , classic cars with holes really can be required to have an IVA.
Electrified classics which were initially granted their original identity back have retrospectively been removed from the road. But the same rules can be applied to ANY classic, converted or just a bit rusty! They can be removed from the road.
I have have been disappointed by the number of journalists who initially were interested but everyone just seems to be waiting to see developments, and there aren't any!
I have put together a petition which if it gets enough signatures will force parliament to discuss this nonsense, the current wording is in this, not yet the final draft.

The DVLA has recently changed the application of their rules on registering the conversion of internal combustion cars to electric power. They are now acting to prevent these conversions, acting to remove converted cars from the road, and using these rules to insist on an IVA and Q-plate for classic cars which have 'modifications' as small as holes drilled in the boot.
The DVLA must urgently clarify how and why their old rules are being applied to this new issue and justify the conflict with government policies on reducing emissions and the environment.

If they cannot do this, then they must write new specific codes and rules for the retrospective electrification of cars and review their recent cases.


I know it is long winded but no one so far has offered any improvement.
I don’t want to be a scare monger but I have had my car removed from the road and any other owner could face the same thing.
You should be getting involved folks!

[mk1]

I think the wording of your petition is pretty damn good!

Sadly, this issue has moved on from your / our initial concerns about electrification & the rules seem to be getting applied in a whole new way that could affect many people here & elsewhere.

The thing that is most needed is CLARIFICATION! This will only come if some pressure is brought to bear on the DVLA & The powers that be.

Please continue to keep us informed & tell us when / where we can sign & promote the petition.

Good luck,

Mark

[docka]

Good wording, I’ll sign as soon as it’s published.

Have you contacted Electric Classic Cars? Surely this must be affecting their business…

[Bitsilly]

Hi and thanks.
To answer your question, I am coming at it from a pretty independent position and don't have a lot of time at the moment.
Nick, the guy who designed my electric components, has got together with a few businesses like his that are effected and are currently pretty much on stop. I am leaving that side to him, but I know they have an interested junior minister on their side and is leasing with the MoT. Any company like Electric Classic Cars, if they aren't aware of this yet, will very soon be. Once the petition is live I hope it can be a rallying point that they can all promote.

I have to be careful with the wording as they can refuse the petition if it is too open ended etc. etc. etc. So I see you guys as the consultation crew!
Go Crew!




ps, not getting much sleep at the mo, so if I come across as slightly unhinged, its because I am!

[mk1]

Ed, as you are already in contact with your MP, could it be worth asking them to suggest a wording that is likely to garner more support & be phrased absolutely correctly?

I think yours is good, but getting some "professional" help, may be worthwhile.

[Peter Laidler]

Might be worth asking under what act and section of the law, these rules are being interpreted. After all, you know you can't speed on the various roads, under section something of the Road Traffic regulation act. The DVLA rules must be substantiated in law. No single person can just decide or invent a set of rules. Or am I missing something?

And as for changing rules to entrap people who have previously converted cars to a specified standard, then telling them that they're being looked at AGAIN. That is not possible. ONLY retrospective legislation can do that

As we used to say.... DVLC = Don't Volunteer Little Changes

[hanlminiman]

All very interesting. There was a lot of publicity from the Revival meeting about Minis being converted by this company https://rechargedheritage.co.uk/, the latest being a Paul Smith version. One of the original conversions is recorded on the DVLA site as 998cc petrol but on the MOT page it is identified as Electric?
I wonder how it will affect David Brown Minis?
What about all the other makes which have been street modded with VERY low suspension, loud exhausts etc

[Peter Laidler]

I phoned a friend an hour or so ago, a Transport specialist solicitor living in Aylesbury. And so far as he can read and recall, there is only 1 piece of traffic legislation that is retrospective. In other words, overrides legally hereafter what existed previously.

Indicators....... Even if your old car had stick-out, lit or unlit, indicators you have to add current flashers too.

(coincidentally, my brothers old 1945 Bedford lorry had to have flashing indicators additionally fitted 30 years ago too. Retrospective MoT requirement!)

[surfblue63]

Just checked the status of some of the cars that were featured on the TV show.

2 cars (VW Beetle and Fiat 500) are now registered as electric.
2 cars (BMW 3.0 CSi and Gordon Keeble) are still registered as petrol. Also these two vehicles have had recent V5C issues which are dated this year. Have they been converted back to petrol, who knows.
1 car (Surfblue Mini) is no longer on the DVLA database.

[mk1]

The BMW Isetta is also no longer listed & the Delorean is currently registered as Electric.

Complete (or as complete as possible) list of the Vintage Voltage cars below.

vintage.jpg

[rolesyboy]

Poor buggers. What a farce

[AndyPen]

My Journo contact hasn't picked up on this unfortunately, but this retrospective lark is very worrying indeed. I'm glad you have included the holes details here.

Also the reversal option needs to be emphasised I'd suggest, so that owner have a choice and not just a random decision!!!

[Old English White]

I phoned a friend an hour or so ago, a Transport specialist solicitor living in Aylesbury. And so far as he can read and recall, there is only 1 piece of traffic legislation that is retrospective. In other words, overrides legally hereafter what existed previously.

Indicators....... Even if your old car had stick-out, lit or unlit, indicators you have to add current flashers too.

(coincidentally, my brothers old 1945 Bedford lorry had to have flashing indicators additionally fitted 30 years ago too. Retrospective MoT requirement!)

Don't think so Peter. We have vehicles which still have only semaphore indicators. Never have any trouble getting them through MOTs.

[Peter Laidler]

See what you mean OEW, but that's what this piece of retrospective law demands - according to the specialist man who also agrees that such needy vehicles are now exempt testing in any case.

[imack]

Flashing or non flashing semaphore arms are perfectly legal. Pre 1936 and you still don't need any indicators.

[Bitsilly]

Peeps,
This is more about what may be from here on in, the obvious issue is not whether semaphore lights are fine or not or if laws can be applied retrospectively, but that modifications are NOT fine anymore.
Old rules were applied to my conversion, and that was OK’ed by an idiots boss and their boss too.
If you are comfortable that this new rule application will not affect you then sleep easy, just like I used to, and don’t bother to sign the petition once it is finalised and live.
It is as simple as that.

[Bitsilly]

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

A much greater issue than this little thing but a point made better than I ever could by Pastor Martin Niemöller.

[mk1]

The DVLA has recently changed the application of their rules on registering the conversion of internal combustion cars to electric power. They are now acting to prevent these conversions, acting to remove converted cars from the road, and using these rules to insist on an IVA and Q-plate for classic cars which have 'modifications' as small as holes drilled in the boot.
The DVLA must urgently clarify how and why their old rules are being applied to this new issue and justify the conflict with government policies on reducing emissions and the environment.

If they cannot do this, then they must write new specific codes and rules for the retrospective electrification of cars and review their recent cases.

For what it's worth, I reckon this new wording is excellent.

[gazza82]

Flashing or non flashing semaphore arms are perfectly legal. Pre 1936 and you still don't need any indicators.

Plenty of A30s '52-'56 running around with trafficators ... some completely as Austin made them.

[Peter Laidler]

Dear O' deary me.... Are we talking about unlawful retrospective legislation - or trafficators on A30's.

I have already told John Bxxxxxxx a traffic law specialist solicitor (who used to advise us on DVLA matters incidentally) that he is crap. He responded by..... No, let's leave it there