UNFIT Pre-A+ Idler Gear Bearings

[Hunter2]

I'm getting my Mini Window Van ready for the ALCAN Summer Rally and stopped by our local mini supplier for some bits. We got to talking about various fit for service issues from clutch plungers to bearings.

Long story short, he reached into a parts box with NEW pre-A+ idler bearings and opened the wee plastic bag around one new bearing. i spun it around my index finger and asked how long would this last in use. He spun it and his eyes widened...there was an obvious flaw in the drawn cup or a needle bearing, with a distinct click felt with each revolution.

So...he opened up another bag and gave me the new bearing...IT WOULD NOT SPIN, every needle roller was seized!

There were NO MARKINGS on the drawn cups of the shaft bearings.

I won't mention the supplier, he will talk with them since he just had skids of new stock delivered...and does not want to be selling defective parts/parts not fit for service.

Some of you might remember that I had the 13H7848 idler bearing blow up on me on the Alaska Hwy during the ALCAN Summer Rally. I sourced alternate shaft bearings through B.C. Bearing Engineers/Motion Canada. They were Made in Germany Schaeffler Group 1212 INAs...which cost me $8.44 each all in. John Guess wondered where I got that stash...I don't know, as B.C. Bearings purchased them.

I repeat the question WHY DO OUR MAIN SUPPLIERS INSIST ON PROVIDING CRAP PRODUCTS?

[Spider]

Hey Rick !

Sounds like more of the same. I know which supplier you are referring too and yes, I'm well over any bearings they supply, barr those in an RHP or Timken packet.

I've not yet come across the unbranded bearings, but the KOR stuff is just awful;-



Layshaft Bearings (small end A+). KOR upper, genuine lower. Note there's 2 less rollers and they are shorter in the KOR Bearing




Layshaft Bearings (big end). KOR on the left, used genuine on the right.




Layshaft Bearings (big end). KOR upper, Used genuine lower.


One that was passed on to me the other day, a KOR Heavy Duty Flat Faced Clutch Release Bearing, not done 3000 miles;-




Since this stuff appeared on the market, I've been buying original bearings or if I haven't been able to source them, Japanese NSK Brand Bearings through my local Bearing Distributor. I don't get special pricing from them and often with the imperial bearings, they are (in their words) expensive, yet none, individually, are more that $10 AUD ea. When I think about what OEM or Quality Bearings cost at a retail level and I keep in mind the low volumes I am buying, + the mark up by the bearing shop etc, I really cannot see what our supplier(s) are trying to 'gain' by pedaling this cheap and very nasty KOR rubbish. It's VERY substandard and when these cheap bearings let go, they only do expensive damage that cheeses us all off. The days of Minis being a cheap daily run about, where the owner was always looking for the cheapest repairs (and parts) are well gone. I think it fair to say that 99%+ of Mini and Moke owners are enthusiasts who'd rather have quality parts than cheap shit and while none of us want to pay more than we need to for that, I think it fair to say most (all ?) of us would rather pay that bit more for that quality, hopefully at least at an OEM level or better.

I'd rather support all our Mini Parts suppliers, so they are viable businesses to be there for some time to come for what ever Mini and Moke parts in to the future that I may need, but as there's more and more junk parts coming in to the market, being sold over their counters, I find it harder and hard to support them and recommend them to others. I'm sure that it's one supplier at the top of this parts supply pyramid who's largely supplying this junk worldwide to other suppliers (and then to us), I get they need to turn a profit, but frankly, with some of the parts they have been supplying, they are just taking the piss, one only needs to look at the above photos to see that. Thankfully, it's not across the board with all parts, some are really good, but stuff like this, well,,, they really need to pull their socks up and have a re-think.

[AndyPen]

Can anyone recommend what to use to replace these please? I hate the idea of putting stuff in that fails so quickly and could do other damage!!

[Maddog]

Spider, I am about to assemble a fresh gearbox (in Australia) and I am not happy with the layshaft bearings supplied (pre-A plus 4 synchro box). They are exactly like the crap you described... Is there a bearing supplier you can recommend that will deal online, or else can you provide part numbers for a decent Japanese or Torrington etc bearing to suit, so I can try a local bearing shop? Any advice would be appreciated - I have already spent a ridiculous amount on new and NOS parts and I really don't want to risk these crap layshaft bearings.
Cheers Maddog

[Peter Laidler]

GREAT thread for the engineering minded here. It also illustrates the vast amount of talent and experience there is. This thread also says what we've all known for a long time but sometimes we don't take on board. That you get just what you pay for. With bearings, the likes of Torrington, SKF, Timken RPB(?) have been doing their stuff for a long time. Wish I was still teaching......., this thread would be part of lesson 1

[Spider]

Torrington and INA were a couple of the OEM suppliers for the gearbox needle rollers. I think INA is still trading under that name. Torringtons was bought by Timkens a few years back who later sold it to Koyo. Pretty much any bearing that comes in packaging with those names and RHP, SKF and NSK you won't go wrong - as long as they are not counterfeits ! Not all manufacturers do all styles of bearings.

Any reputable manufacturer will recognise these numbers;-

CHM141 is a FWF-202617
13H9513 is a FWF-182514
HYL8473 is a FWF-162126
CHM172 is a FWF-141817
TUK100320 is a BR-142212
13H78418 is a JH-1212

The upper Suspension Arm is a B-1212 and the Trailing Arm is a B-1316

I generally get these in NSK or Koyo brand.

Be aware, there is a lot of cheap junk bearings out there these days and a lot of the bearing suppliers stock that thinking they are doing their customers a favor by offering cheap bearings, I'll leave that for them and their 'cheap' customers to sort out. Bearings from reputable manufacturers come in sealed plastic bags and individually boxed in the Manufacturer's name.

[Peter Laidler]

The 1" top arm was a VERY common bearing for us. So common that they were known to the vehicle mechs and the storemen as Torrington 12-12's.

Bearings...... You get just what you pay for. That said, they've got to be fitted, aligned and spaced properly. Learned from my few months in the bearing inspection and calibration bay. If they're being re-used - not always a good idea, but... - then take the opportunity to wash out in clean clear petrol (we had a special detergent), allow to dry and inspect each ball or roller and race under an eye glass. I could go on and on but as soon as there is the slightest pick-up or break down of any surface, they're toast.

On the big wheel station hubs, they would even inspect the detergent that the bearings were rinsed in for steel or chrome particles. Happy days. I wish I'd taken more notice of these clever blokes

[Maddog]

Thanks Spider - I am going to print off that list and next time I have a day off will head to my local bearing supplier to go shopping for some real bearings!
Cheers
Maddog

[woodypup59]

Does KOR mean Korean ?

[surfblue63]

I think KOR means Kor blimey, not again.

[AndyPen]

Torrington and INA were a couple of the OEM suppliers for the gearbox needle rollers. I think INA is still trading under that name. Torringtons was bought by Timkens a few years back who later sold it to Koyo. Pretty much any bearing that comes in packaging with those names and RHP, SKF and NSK you won't go wrong - as long as they are not counterfeits ! Not all manufacturers do all styles of bearings.

Any reputable manufacturer will recognise these numbers;-

CHM141 is a FWF-202617
13H9513 is a FWF-182514
HYL8473 is a FWF-162126
CHM172 is a FWF-141817
TUK100320 is a BR-142212
13H78418 is a JH-1212

The upper Suspension Arm is a B-1212 and the Trailing Arm is a B-1316

I generally get these in NSK or Koyo brand.

Be aware, there is a lot of cheap junk bearings out there these days and a lot of the bearing suppliers stock that thinking they are doing their customers a favor by offering cheap bearings, I'll leave that for them and their 'cheap' customers to sort out. Bearings from reputable manufacturers come in sealed plastic bags and individually boxed in the Manufacturer's name.

Many thanks Spider - really helpful

[Spider]

Glad that list can be of help to you guys.

The keener may note that the inner gearbox bearings are metric Most of the Bearings and shafts are metric (like our front wheel bearings) or hybrid Metric / Imperial, like the 1st and 3rd Motion Shaft Bearings, which are metric OD, Imperial ID

Does KOR mean Korean ?

I think KOR means Kor blimey, not again.

Quite.

I traced them back a while ago. They are Chinese. Regardless, I'd suggest avoiding them.

[Kiwi Craig]

Just brought a set of gearbox bearings from Mini Spares, the larger ones are RHP, the small laygear and idler are unmarked. Can I trust the quality from them?

[Spider]

Just brought a set of gearbox bearings from Mini Spares, the larger ones are RHP, the small laygear and idler are unmarked. Can I trust the quality from them?

Hey mate, how's it going ?

Summer time now, only need enough wood for the nights

The specialist bearings in their kits, Mainshaft, 1st Motion and Outrigger are the real deal, but from the last kits I got from them, all the needle rollers were rubbish.

[Kiwi Craig]

Thanks for that Chris, may try and source some quality ones locally.

[Spider]

Thread revival !

I am pleased to advise that I have been reliably informed that Mini Spares no long stock KOR Bearings.

IKO, Torrington, Koyo and BW Bearings are now what they have in the Needle Roller range.

They have always had RHP Roller Bearings, which I personally have not had any issues with.

Well done !

[MiNiKiN]

Thread revival !

I am pleased to advise that I have been reliably informed that Mini Spares no long stock KOR Bearings.

IKO, Torrington, Koyo and BW Bearings are now what they have in the Needle Roller range.

They have always had RHP Roller Bearings, which I personally have not had any issues with.

Well done !

Thanks for the info, though I now, after reading this, feel some angst coming up . I bought my bearings some 3 or 4 years ago, and now have to check the bills for what I actually got. Saying that, I would assume I'd have taken the brand bearings if I was given an option back then, being in the know about how important quality is on bearings.

[GraemeC]

Are all KOR bearings to be avoided and have MS moved away from them for everything?
I notce the heavy duty clutch release bearing is KOR branded (or at least in the picture on their website it is):
https://www.minispares.com/grb201evo-cl ... -pre-verto

[swifty]

I’ve just fitted one of those clutch bearings , hope they are ok . …. Shirley

[Spider]

Are all KOR bearings to be avoided and have MS moved away from them for everything?
I notce the heavy duty clutch release bearing is KOR branded (or at least in the picture on their website it is):
https://www.minispares.com/grb201evo-cl ... -pre-verto

Simon has let me know that they have removed ll KOR Bearings from their shelves. I'd say that the web photos may still show some as KOR, but if in doubt, ask first.

The Bearings they now stock are known to most of us, though I've not heard of BW before.

I’ve just fitted one of those clutch bearings , hope they are ok . …. Shirley

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