Cone type gearboxes

[mini1960]

Hi,
does anybody know the internal differences between the cone syncro boxes (especially the 22A104 compared to the 22A145)?
I have an empty 22A104 casing. Which parts will fit to make a working gearbox maybe also with later type laygears?

Thanks,
Daniel

[iain1967s]

Last year I was given three early cone gearboxes as scrap for spares.

Photos in age order, earliest first:
22A102 [Casing Number 22A104]
22A150 [Casing Number 22A145]
22A364 [Casing Number 22A363]

The 104 and the 145 looked identical internally to me. Both have the thinner oil pickup pipe, whereas the 363 is a bit later design and has a fatter pipe.

They were all using the same G40 laygear, A-type gears on 10 spline ‘thin’ mainshaft, and smaller OD main bearing. I’d guess that a B-type on 11 spline gear set won’t fit directly in the casing unless you either machine out the web for the newer larger main bearing, or grind the mainshaft to fit into the older smaller main bearing.

But the selector mechanism etc. seems to be the same as later remote boxes. I am using the 363’s gear selector mechanism and speedo drive for my 333 box build.

The 104 I gave away to a forum member who is restoring a 59 car, and the 145 is still available if anyone with a ‘60 wants it (free, but note that I’m in USA so overseas shipping would be prohibitive). I also still have most of the original 363 gearset, some gears and parts might be salvageable if you need anything specific, and a few other spares.

First gear on all 3 laygears and 1/2 hub was ground away on these ‘crash’ boxes of course - probably why the boxes were pulled from their cars in the first place. But I do have a good A type 10 spline 1/2 hub if you need one. Curiously it has 6 ball bearings and springs rather than the more usual 3 used on later boxes.

[Spider]

Some Factory Info on the case numbers;-



After this, the Baulk Ring boxes were introduced.



As above, there were conversion kits available.

This listing I think has all the bits that are needed for a compatible conversion;-

[mini1960]

Thanks for that information. I need to have a closer look to all that and give feedback later.

Dani

[iain1967s]

For completeness, the early mag gearboxes (2a3707, 2a3708, 2a77) and the first aluminium gearbox (22a104) were also constant pressure (cone) type but we’re only used for ‘59 and ‘60 cars. The 22a145 came into use later in ‘60 and the 22a363 in turn replaced that until the baulk ring boxes took over.

The cones are usually all worn down by the time the box is discarded. Consider that a common option back in the mid 60s would have been to replace the cone gearbox completely with a 22G68 A or B type baulk synchro box.

The cone synchro hubs can’t be refurbished without shrink fitting and then machining new cones to the gears - which, even if new cones were available (they aren't) - is a precision engineering job on a lathe, not something you can do without a workshop.

Not sure if anyone still has the cones or baulk ring conversion parts available - even getting hold of the later and more common A and B type gears is getting harder, so good luck if you go that route.

My personal opinion: All the cone gearboxes are not worth the hassle, unless you’re restoring an early 59 or 60 car and want everything concours

If you’re really lucky you’ll find a cone gearbox where someone has changed it out because they destroyed the crash first gear before wearing the 2/3/4 synchro cones. In that case, all you might need is a new 1st ring gear and a new laygear - both of which are easier to find.

[Lakeland997]

Hi Daniel

I have a NOS baulk ring conversion kit as mentioned above and NOS lay and reverse gears to match that I'm not using but it depends what your budget is.

Andy

[mini1960]

My personal opinion: All the cone gearboxes are not worth the hassle, unless you’re restoring an early 59 or 60 car and want everything concours

You‘re probably right. As it is an August 1960 car I‘m trying to get as much original parts as possible before I start the restoration.
The engine and gearbox were replaced by a 1963 type long ago. It is maybe the best solution to keep that for driving the car regularly but on the other hand I would like to have it authentic.

[mini1960]

Hi Daniel

I have a NOS baulk ring conversion kit as mentioned above and NOS lay and reverse gears to match that I'm not using but it depends what your budget is.

Andy

I‘ll send you a PM.

[iain1967s]

John Guess can also provide the set of parts required for baulk ring conversion of these early gearboxes.