Baulk rings... what to get?

[sandman]

Which baulk rings are the best? Minipares 22G2033MS own or the "geniune" Rover items... 22G2033 ?

I gather that the upgraded ones C-22A1741 are NLA or out of stock...?

[guru_1071]

ed

its horses for courses, the correct question is, how well is the gearbox going to be rebuilt & components checked by the builder?

most people dont bother measuring the 'stand off' from the gears, account for the baulk rings bedding in etc etc, so always end up having problems - the amount of boxes i see where people just throw a set of rings in, nip the two nuts up and then complain when they baulk or snatch is amazing - and ive seen some shocking gearboxes rebuilt by 'experts' recently!!

the cheap bulk rings are fine as long as care is taken selecting them, but in my experience they are no worse then the genuines rover ones (better in some batches, as the rover ones do vary quite a lot!)

the last batch of comp rings that where made where just about perfection, all the drawings had been redone so the teeth exactly match the angle of the cone on the ms straight cut gears and they went through a new heat & machining process to better control the warping when the points are hardened - there has been very few complaints about them. the only ones that i saw that had problems where selected customers who used some of the 'so-so' ones from the sample batch, they had them on a 'suck it and see' basis after we had sat with a go-no-go gauge and measured each one - it took ages!

the new batch is in (1000 i think), they have just gone away to have the final heat treatment & machining work done, i guess they will be avalible within the next 4 weeks or so.

the biggest fault of any baulk rings is the amount of heat put into them when the points are hardend - the larger the area heated (and the speed at which it is done so) the more the ring will warp, which then leads to problems with them fitting and working.

look at some pattern ones (and some rover ones) the dark surface area will extend 10mm or more each side of the point - its this excess heat that twists the ring (and sets up a weak point for breakage)

it also depends at which manufacturing point the points are hardened - this is the trick that makes the comp ones so good as the process is very carefully controlled and done with quality of the final product in mind rather then speed/cost of the process.

you may guess, compy baulks are another minispares north project!

[sandman]

I need rings for one of your new C-AJJ3371 gear kits.. and i need something that is available now.. Which is best match?

Oh - nice to hear of your projects - if you want a tip; you should start looking into recreating the B-type 3-sync 1.st gear and sync hub.. (why no-one reproduce this is beyond me, seeing "everyone" sell 3-sync s/c c/R kits... )

Make a new hub and gear and make it proper. If it's good it will be worth paying £100+ for... whilch is cheap, considering the only alternative is spending hours on end searching ebay and the net for a hub 'you might end up paying the double for.. The market for these things shoudl be good..seeing the ring will fit Sprites etc too

[guru_1071]

Oh - nice to hear of your projects - if you want a tip; you should start looking into recreating the B-type 3-sync 1.st gear and sync hub..

ed, its been on the 'too do' list for years, the problem is that is a complicated part to make as its both internally and externally ground. oddly we did have a discusiion about them at work the other week as a 'possible'

for many years the belief was that people wouldnt pay the money it would cost to have a batch made - i think they would be well over £100, as a rough guess the later hubs are near £200 and they are made from a known good set of drawings and manufacturing process.

its the same old problem that is faced the world over when it comes to remanufacturing parts, how many can be sold, and can a price be charged to recover the costs, i think sadly that in the case of the s first gear the answers are not many and no.

we would have to get two sets of drawings done for both parts (casting and machining), have samples made, metal test them, sign them off, have more samples made, test them, cost them, etc etc - before the part is even on the shelf theres probably 5-10 grand in money gone........plus about 18 months of faffing around


the only way that they will get made for sure is that if something happened like all the historic racers where made to run period 3 sync boxes, then the demand would be there to make it worth while, but as it stands its a part i get maybe two enquiries a year for - at the end of the day, the midget/sprite one can be modded if your desperate.

we have a good few more 'that was a good idea super secret things' in the pipeline though!

[Vegard]

Well, if you get the Minis in your country to comply with FIA-regulations (as they should) you'd sell hundreds of 3sync hubs

[sandman]

The first gearhub is part that takes the most beating in a 3 sync box and the first one to wear down..

How many 3-sync gear kits do you think you'll sell when there's no more 1st gears left?

Why nobody can see there's a market here is way, way beyond me.... Especially considering that the 1st gear is the same part that is used in almost all the 3-sync boxes - race and road!

[Vegard]

I wholeheartedly agree with Ed here. You'd not sell another 3sync gearkit to me as I've run out of syncro hubs....I guess I'm not the only one.
Also, remember what we talked about concerning the cones on the C-AJJ3371.

[guru_1071]

oddly, i sell far, far more inline 3 sync kits than transverse, and they dont seem to have the problems with the 1st/2nd hub (though of course you can still buy them (and mod them for use in transverse boxes.... )

as ive said before, the cost of tooling up to do an item that would, in all honesty, have a very limited market would be horrific.

realistically, how many would be sold a year? 10?, 20?, 100?

i'll never say never, but i doubt they will appear soon

[Michael7]

So if the Spridget 1-2 synchro hub can be modded to work in Mini gear sets, and they are still available as you say, why wouldn't MSC buy up some of these, have the mods done, and offer them as "22A1021-modded" hubs at a price that covers the machining? Then you don't have to tool up from nothing to manufacture a gear that you don't think will sell in sufficient numbers. You can limit your investment, it would be a service to MSC customers and it would help ensure future sales of C-AJJ3371 sets. Seems like a winner to me.

[guru_1071]

mike

its because its a complicated job, and i suspect if anyone tried to do it as a 'production run' it would be uneconomic.

from memory it involves grinding a groove into the inside, then having a ring shrunk down onto the outer edge - i know the guy who has done a few said that it was a vile job that took ages.

i know that as it stands at the moment we are concentrating on the later four sync stuff as there is just so much demand for it

[36inter]

Guru, do you sell the Sprigit 1st/2nd gear hub, if so could you let me know the part number and current cost for future reference, thanks.

Pete

[Michael7]

They offer the outer ring only on the web site, but perhaps can supply the complete hub.

http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx? ... 643&title=

[guru_1071]

thats the one, dont sell the inner bit

[cooperess]

Here I go and drag up this old post.

Has anyone remade the 22G2033 baulk rings to the correct specs yet?

[OzOAP]

Well, if you get the Minis in your country to comply with FIA-regulations (as they should) you'd sell hundreds of 3sync hubs

[InnoCooperExport]

Here I go and drag up this old post.

Has anyone remade the 22G2033 baulk rings to the correct specs yet?

I know Guessworks sell them. http://guessworks.co.uk/Shop/Parts/display.htm?id=164 but I don't know if they meet your standards

[cooperess]

Has anyone remade the 22G2033 baulk rings to the original specs yet?

[iain1967s]

See this thread.
viewtopic.php?p=231517#p231517