Fuel Injection

[100BUR]

Any feedback/reviews or comments on SC Fuel injection system.

Thanks

https://www.specialist-components.co.uk ... y-kit.html

[Vegard]

For that money I'd be inclided to go 8-port and get a set of used throttle bodies from Ebay.

[indigo]

I installed that kit on the daily drive a couple of years back. Still going strong. This was my first dabble in fuel injection, so it was a good learning experience. Probably why I did it.
Easy to install and started first time once I had the firing order correct. Did the initial tune myself using a wide band AF meter, based on a map supplied by SC. Then had the tune checked on the dyno, primarily to check the ignition and top end fuel maps, so I was happy to use it flat out on the track.
It was easy to do the main fuel and ignition maps, but more of a challenge sorting the acceleration enrichment (which was turned off in the initial map) and cold idle which is critical for a daily drive where you don’t plan to sit around for the car to warm up. The difficulty I have is finding someone who was familiar with the SXTune software and knows automatically what to adjust without fishing through the menus.
Apart from the cold idle and cold running in stop start traffic it drives well. Good smooth power and good fuel economy.
Apart from the kit you need the fuel supply, and a wide band AF meter (unless you have someone who is going to do all the tuning for you). I run the S twin tanks and a return line. Make sure you have access to someone who knows the software and Delt400 as this will save some agro unless you know it yourself.

[100BUR]

Indigo thanks for the reply/feedback

Do SC not offer the facility of set up rolling road? or was this not practical for you

Cheers

[indigo]

If SC do offer the rolling road, it would probably be expensive for me as the car (and me) are located in Australia.

[Lakeland997]

It's funny, I was planning on starting a thread sometime about the SC system.

I have two SC equipped vehicles, a seven port with throttle bodies and the single body type.
Both have the same control ecu.

I agree with indigo's comments above and installed the systems partly for the same reason as a first dabble in 'modern' engine control.

I particularly agree with indigo on the cold starting issues. I would have thought that with these systems I should be able to turn the key without touching the accelerator and it would start and settle down to a nice fast idle. I haven't been able to achieve this and that was going to be the subject of a future thread.

The idle speed control on these systems is primitive (by modern standards). There is no air bypass valve or motorised butterfly so the only tool in the armoury for stabilising idle speed is by varying ignition advance. It works ok but don't expect modern Fiesta/Polo standards of refinement. perhaps it should be thought of as more as a Motorsport system. In fact, I notice that SC now disclaim any 'road' use of their systems!

That said, the performance of the engines when set up on a dyno is very good and smooth and can be finely tuned in terms of fuelling and ignition advance whatever cam you have fitted.
The problem is, that is all done hot. Setting the engine up to start and run cold is not something most dyno operators will do (unless you leave the car with them for a few days and pay them oodles of money). Because you can only assess the results of any changes after you let the engine cool down again. My current thinking on the reason I can't get a good cold start is that the ecu may be too slow to change from cranking conditions to idle control. It starts and runs for a few seconds then stalls. But as I said, that probably needs a separate thread in the hope that there are others on here with more experience.

other points:

The 'instructions' available from SC are basic. They tell you what controls you have but unless you have prior knowledge of ecu tuning, some of it won't make any sense.
The base maps need to be worked on before you try to start anything. The fuel and ignition settings are fine as a start but all the sensor settings also come across from whatever car it was developed on that are bespoke to each car so for example the trigger wheel offset, the scaling of the temperature sensors etc.
For rolling road tuning, I think that any competent tuner could handle the SC system if you take along your laptop with the software on.

You could probably put together a better bespoke system from various components (I think there are better ecu and software systems out there) but you'd need quite a lot of knowledge. The beauty of the SC is it's all in one package ready for the A-series.

Andy

[indigo]

Andy, Sounds like we have a lot of common experiences and comments.
I would be happy to support a thread on the SC injection system.
Give us somewhere to bounce problems and ideas around.

[Spider]

I'm just fitting up another type of unit presently, while it does have injection facilities, I'm only using the Ignition side of it.

Just reading the comments / issues here with cold starting - does the SC Unit have a coolant (sender) input ?

[indigo]

Spider,
It has both coolant and air temp sensor inputs.
The coolant temp is used for many things, including to advance the ignition as required to maintain idle at low temps.
On top of this, for idle, the actual idle is compared to the target idle. The difference in the two is used to adjust the spark advance to try and close the gap.
The software guide is available on the SC site if you are interested.

[Lakeland997]

Yes it does Spider, and air temperature, and cranking fuel enrichment, and separate cranking advance.
I'll start up another thread though and post some pictures as I don't want to hijack this one.

Andy

[tmsmini]

I have been running one in our tin wagon for a few years. I would be glad to contribute as I can.

This is a picture from a few years ago.

I recently switched to a 45 mm TB from the 50, so have been going through some readjustment issues.

Also have the SC system in our woodie, but it is ignition only and also with an MPi based block.

[Spider]

Indigo and Lakeland997 - thanks guys.

I'm only new and learning with this stuff too !


I've only ever glanced at the SC Kit and I think - at the very least - for entry level, it does appear to be a good bit of kit, and a fairly neat set up.

[dazibee]

I found on mine it was not possible to speed the engine up enough when cold using ignition advance. SC have supplied me with an idle air valve which i am about to fit. Other than that i have been mapping it myself. There is not a massive amount of help from googlin this so i find any threads on the subject very helpful.

[tmsmini]

Would be very curious as to what SC have provided for an IAC valve.

[dazibee]

Its a Webcon aux air valve recommended by SC. I think the kit should have included it really - i don't see the point of paying for fuel injection and then having a fast idle lever to pull to get it to idle when cold.
The fast idle lever has since been deleted and now your options are mapping different amounts of advance to speed the engine up when cold (not really satisfactory) or fit an idle valve like i'm trying at the moment.

[tmsmini]

Like this one:
https://www.webcon.co.uk/shopdisplaypro ... le+Control



I would have to agree that idle issues can be a problem.
It seems the Delta 400 ECU handles this better than the Typhoon II did.
I was at the point of trying to retrofit the fast idle control, but the newer ECU seems to have helped.

[Lakeland997]

Ooh, where does that fit then?

[dazibee]

Mine is fitted to end of inlet manifold. If I can’t succeed in getting it to work correctly there is a low tech solution of something like an escort rs turbo air valve which is just a bimetallic strip.

[dazibee]

Like this one:
https://www.webcon.co.uk/shopdisplaypro ... le+Control



I would have to agree that idle issues can be a problem.
It seems the Delta 400 ECU handles this better than the Typhoon II did.
I was at the point of trying to retrofit the fast idle control, but the newer ECU seems to have helped.

Yes that’s the one.

[swifty]

I'm interested as I had a tuned MPI last year . With all the agro setting the sc components system up , what would you say is the benefit as in BHP increase when fitted to a MPI with a big valve head , SW5 cam etc .... ken