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Hi there,

As stated on title, i've try start 65 cooper it got new wiring loom and alternator. It seem that coil aren't getting any/much power while cranking. As I've tested with voltmeter it seem at ignition switch at first position it is getting 12.5v then starting (Second position) it drop to 10v at white wire. I've had checked all wiring, it is possibly the cause of this would be earthing? But The starter motor seem be spinning over pretty quickly as it is powerlite unit. I know that coil aren't sparking as tested the HT lead to block and nothing jumping across.

Any help on this is very much appreciate.

Kind Regards

C

10 volts at the coil while cranking is quite OK. It's when it gets to 9 Volts or lower that can cause problems from under voltage.

I'm thinking the problem maybe elsewhere.

If you take the dissy cap off and have some one crank it over, while you look at the points, they should spark a little. You may need to do this out of the sunlight though. If they are sparking, then I'd look to the coil. If they are not sparking, then there's an LT fault somewhere, could be shorted points or condensor or an open circuit wire.

As Spider said, 10V while cranking is not unusual. Lower voltage at the coil while cranking is why the ballast ignition system was introduced.

Look for spark at the points as Spider suggested. Also pull a spark plug and rest it against the head while cranking to make sure there is a good spark at the plugs. If the sparks are weak and orange, try replacing the condenser.

Hi thank you all for quick respond.

Okay then well must be coil that are no good then also I've noticed that there are some burn mark near the rear remote shifter housing.

So tried crank over again noticed it's arcing therefore its due to bad earthing? As i've got earth strap at bottom of right inner wing across to flywheel housing? Even i've try use jump lead act as earth from block to body it has reduce the arcing but it is still there.

Regards
Christian

Another thing that I've forgotten to mention is that I've already tested the coil are not sparking by ht lead near the block, nothing there at all. As well i am using CSI distributor so can't see the points sparking.

Ta

Where is the arcing you are seeing? Is it between the main battery cable and car body or elsewhere? Regardless, make sure the earth cables in the boot and in the engine bay are both making good electrical contact to the car body and clutch cover. Remove the cables and clean the bodywork to bare metal until it is free of rust or corrosion. Do the same to the cable terminals. During reassembly apply a small amount of dielectric grease between the cable terminals and their anchor points to slow the onset of future corrosion.

CSI distributor? I am not familiar with the them but I did find the online video and web site linked below. Perhaps it will help some.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSkgj5nK ... r_embedded
and their tech pages.
http://www.csi-ignition.nl/en/technical_info.html
Tell us a bit more about the ignition system and what wires are connected where.

Coils seldom go bad. Not finding a spark by holding the plug wire next to the engine block shows there is no spark but not which component is causing the problem.

It between rear of remote shifter to body, Ive already clean the earth connection both end and the arcing has seem disappear!

Okay, At moment the white wire go to negative side of coil and black/white go to positive side. At the distributor it has got two wire red and black the black one go to white/black which go to negative coil and red one go to positive side of coil directly.

Thats correct as I've good spare coil and tested with that still the same problem as it was before.

Ignition switch the red/white at top of barrel as 1 position, next position clockwise looking at back of it is brown/blue and two white.

Hope you all understand this.

Regards
Christian

From your last reply I have an important question for you. Is your car wired for negative earth?

I don't know when BMC changed to negative earth but I expect it was around 1967. The wiring colors you describe for the CSI ignition module would be common/correct for negative earth. A negative earth module will not work in a positive earth car and may be damaged if connected with reverse polarity.

Hi,

Yes it has been changed to negative earth. Well i am sure that I've not damaged the CSI as i haven't connected 12v directly to black wire as it would damaged it pretty sure away, is there any way for me to tested the CSI if I've accidentally damaged it?

I have tested similar modules by removing the distributor from the car.

Connect a battery charger's black/earth clamp to the distributor housing. Connect the charger's red/positive clamp to the ignition module's red wire. Solder wires to a turn signal lamp. Connect the lamp wires between the ignition module's black wire and the battery charger's red/positive clamp. With those connections made, spin the distributor shaft. The turn signal lamp should flash on and off as the distributor shaft spins.

CSI Dissys are really good:) I've been running these in a few of the cars for a while now.

OK, did you check the coil resistance before fitting up the CSI? If it's less than 1.5 ohms (from memory) then you may have fried the CSI, this is one down side of them (as well as most other electronic ignitions).

I think most of the stock Lucas Coils will be OK (although they don't last too long) and most of the normal range of Bosch Coils are also OK. Avoid so called Sports or Performance type Coils.

Thank you for information about testing CSI, as you stated that last bit to connected black lead to lamp then lamp to positive clamp would you fried the CSI as it stated in manual if i connect black lead directly to 12v positive it would fried it, sorry if I've misunderstood you. Well yes I've ran CSI on mgb, I've research more into CSI what if I've fried it. The LED lamp still working internal?

Yes I've tested the coil of resistance it is around 3.5.

Its still baffled me it still wouldn't produce any spark, even I've tried with original contact breaker one there aren't any spark in the points be honest with you the point and condenser might be already shot as haven't tested them but i am sure it would allowed some spark!

Okay, At moment the white wire go to negative side of coil and black/white go to positive side. At the distributor it has got two wire red and black the black one go to white/black which go to negative coil and red one go to positive side of coil directly.

Could you redescribe this please? You state you have white/black going to both -ve and +ve sides of the coil.
The white should go to coil +ve the white/black from coil -ve to dizzy.

Hmmm, thats very good point. As just had quick look in haynes manual and realise that every wiring diagram that all battery are positive earthed even mk2. Now i am so baffled. In the diagram it said that white go to negative and white/black to positive.

majorslinn wrote:Hmmm, thats very good point. As just had quick look in haynes manual and realise that every wiring diagram that all battery are positive earthed even mk2. Now i am so baffled. In the diagram it said that white go to negative and white/black to positive.

That would be correct for a Positive Earth Car. I think you said yours had been converted to Negative Earth. The CSI will only work with Negative Earthed Cars and while I haven't tried it, I'm pretty sure trying it in a Positive Earth Car will also fry it.

If a Coil with a resistance less than 1.5 ohms were to be connected, the LED would still work, as it only fries the Output MOSFET, not the whole unit, but it would be US none the less. Your Coil at 3.5 ohms is fine, however, when you checked it, did you short your multimeter leads together to see what their resistance is and then subtract that from the coil reading? This is normally only needed when measuring resitances less than 10 ohms, also, being a coil, it takes about 10 seconds for the reading to settle down as the current from the meter charges the coil.


In the case of the wiring for the CSI, you would connect the;-

White Wire (from the car's harness) to the Coil +ve
Red Wire (from the CSI) also to the Coil +ve
Black Wire (from the CSI) to the Coil -ve

The White / Black wire wouldn't be connected at all.

dklawson's method of testing the CSI with a lamp is a very good and simple one for sure . You can also use this to static time the system.

It may also be worthwhile fitting a Points Dissy and see if it produces spark and runs. That will eliminate all the other components, or be easier to find a faulted one. Then try re-fitting the CSI.

One other thing I'll add that I found with CSI Dissys (and is true of all Electronic Systems that I've tried), is if the Volts to the CSI drop below 8.0 Volts, they don't work, not enough volts to run the electronics. This shouldn't be an issue in your case, as you say you have 10 Volts, but just something else to keep in mind.

Sorry, the following question won't help solve the problem. It is simply my own curiosity.

I briefly browsed the CSI web site after my last post. It sounds like the CSI has switch selectable advance curves much like the 123 distributor. Is that correct? If so, it's rather curious that both the 123 and CSI distributors are from The Netherlands. Is one a spin-off of the other? I know that the 123 uses Bosch caps and rotors, what does the CSI use for caps and rotors?

Back on topic, if you still have the points distributor, I like Spider's suggestion to re-fit it and get the engine started. Once you have a running engine you can return your focus on the CSI unit.

I had missed the comment about the coil wiring. Since your car has been converted to negative earth, make sure the wires are connected to the coil as Spider said. If you have a tachometer, leave it disconnected for now. Get the wiring and components back to their simplest form, then add components back one at a time so you can identify where the problem is.

the CSI use normal lucas caps, which in my eyes makes them far better as the body looks like a proper lucas and the caps and arms are cheap and easy to get.

the bosch caps for the 123 are mega money!

dklawson wrote:Sorry, the following question won't help solve the problem. It is simply my own curiosity.

I briefly browsed the CSI web site after my last post. It sounds like the CSI has switch selectable advance curves much like the 123 distributor. Is that correct? If so, it's rather curious that both the 123 and CSI distributors are from The Netherlands. Is one a spin-off of the other? I know that the 123 uses Bosch caps and rotors, what does the CSI use for caps and rotors?

Yeah, as Rich has said, just stock Lucas 45D4 Caps and Rotors and does retain that original look, not that I'm worried about that.

Just another small point about the CSI's, I've found the available curves are considerably better suited to the Mini than the 123 has. CSI also offer a 'Custom' Version, which I recall reading a while back was completely user programmable, however I'm now not 100% sure that is the case. Could be worth looking in to for some users as you can have a further option to have a dash moulted switch to select between curves while on the move.

http://www.csi-ignition.nl/en/about_csi/options.html

I've certainly put the one on the Moke through hell and high water and never given any trouble, though I did take it apart when I got it to seal it right up, so now I can do deep creek crossings without fear;-



OK, back on track now

I learned about a year ago that 123 also has a user programmable dizzy that is supposed to connect to your laptop via USB. Supposedly you can program the curve on the fly during a RR session. I have no first hand experience with any 123 dizzy though.

Majorslinn, in an earlier post I think you said you re-fitted the points distributor and still had no spark. You really need to try that distributor again to eliminate electronics failures from being the possible cause of your lack of spark. I apologize in advance for the lengthy post to follow but please give this a try.

On the bench, fiit a new condenser and new set of points to your old distributor. Set the points gap properly and make sure none of the components inside the distributor are shorted to earth. If your old distributor is a 25D4 or 23D4 model please let us know as there are special steps you need to take with their points.
Turn the engine over by hand until cylinder #1 is about 5 to 8 degrees before TDC on its firing stroke (the rocker arms for cylinder #1 will be "loose" and can be wiggled if you grab them). If the rocker arms are not loose, turn the engine through one more complete revolution until piston #1 is again coming towards TDC and its rocker arms are loose.
For negative earth, connect your ignition wires as follows: white wire to coil (+), white/black wire between coil (-) and the points in the distributor. Nothing else. No other wires at this time. HOWEVER, use a multimeter to make sure that the white/black wire connected to coil (-) is the same white/black wire that is connected to the distributor. Some wiring harnesses have a second white/black for the tachometer. Make sure you are using the short white/black wire between the coil and distributor... do not connect the white/black tach wire if present.
Fit the distributor to the block and set the static timing. If you are unclear on how to do this let us know.

That should be all that is needed to get a spark. Remember that you will only get a spark when the points open so it is important that they are gapped correctly when you turn the engine over on the starter.

Hi anybody,

Got good news, managed to fired the engine sounded fantastic. just like to say a big thank you to everybody who given me a hand.

Now i like to fit smiths rev counter so far i know that there are three connection at back of it. one of them are red spade connection and green bullet connection and one earth wire (black).

Ta