mk1-forum.net

Hello everyone!

I've an engine to build. It's an A+ 998.

I stripped it, as it was knocking, number 4 had gone on the big end, and well, all the journals were slightly scored, even the mains...

So I sent off the crank, another block, the cam and the pistons (+20) and it all came back ready to re assemble.

Now.

I've done engines, but its always been, changing somthing over, or taking one out to put another in.

So, any tips or advice, anything particular I need to do on a full rebuild? I've read the Haynes a couple of times (The early yellow one that actually shows you how, not that stupid blue one that covers the SPI's that simply tells you to take it to your local rover dealer!)

It all look pretyty straight forward.... not much to them is there!!?

Many thanks in advance!

Ed

Utter cleanliness at all times is a given.

It's a very good idea to pull out all the brass oilway plugs
so you can ensure that the galleries are all swarfe-free.

There are 4 large ones, 2 at the front and 2 at the rear.
There are also some smaller ones in the oil-pressure
valve area. Mine all get threaded to take 1/4" and 1/8"
BSP plugs. If you do this, make sure you don't wind the
oil pump one in so far that it blocks off the feed to the
front gallery.

Make sure you put the centre main cap on the right way
round... Did you centre-punch it to give yourself a clue
later on?

I always squirt engine oil into the crank oilways before
putting on the main and big-end caps. I also grease the
shells and the thrust washers.

Make sure that the triangular cam thrust plate is fitted
with the white-metal towards the back-plate & cam.

Always check the cam/crank timing. The "join-the-dots"
method is not always accurate and it is easy to get the
whole thing one tooth wrong and it will still look right.

As was found out on here recently, be sure to get the
distributor drive spindle in the correct orientation.

Be sure to put in the block to gearbox 'O' ring!

Before you fire it up, spin the engine over to get oil pressure.
You should be able to get full pressure on the starter motor.

You can do this before you put the engine in:
Just fill the oil filter and as many other places as possible
with oil, and spin it over with no plugs.

Sometimes it takes a while, the secret is to try to get as
much air out of the system as possible before you start
cranking it over.

Where to stop?

Good luck!

Ian

ianh1968 wrote:Utter cleanliness at all times is a given.

It's a very good idea to pull out all the brass oilway plugs
so you can ensure that the galleries are all swarfe-free.

There are 4 large ones, 2 at the front and 2 at the rear.
There are also some smaller ones in the oil-pressure
valve area. Mine all get threaded to take 1/4" and 1/8"
BSP plugs. If you do this, make sure you don't wind the
oil pump one in so far that it blocks off the feed to the
front gallery.

Make sure you put the centre main cap on the right way
round... Did you centre-punch it to give yourself a clue
later on?

I always squirt engine oil into the crank oilways before
putting on the main and big-end caps. I also grease the
shells and the thrust washers.

Make sure that the triangular cam thrust plate is fitted
with the white-metal towards the back-plate & cam.

Always check the cam/crank timing. The "join-the-dots"
method is not always accurate and it is easy to get the
whole thing one tooth wrong and it will still look right.

As was found out on here recently, be sure to get the
distributor drive spindle in the correct orientation.

Be sure to put in the block to gearbox 'O' ring!

Before you fire it up, spin the engine over to get oil pressure.
You should be able to get full pressure on the starter motor.

You can do this before you put the engine in:
Just fill the oil filter and as many other places as possible
with oil, and spin it over with no plugs.

Sometimes it takes a while, the secret is to try to get as
much air out of the system as possible before you start
cranking it over.

Where to stop?

Good luck!

Ian

Plus don't forget to gap the rings, probably the most important job for good results.

I thought all rings came already gapped on pistons nowadays,don't forget this lad is learning and if he removes the rings will probably break one if not more removing or refitting them ,be care full fitting the pistons in the bores , make sure they are compressed properly ,don' trap the rings in the compressor and use plenty of engine oil, don't be frightened of oil every where you can wash it of once the engine and box are all built up ,
Goff

If you're going to use the engine (motor) right away engine oil is OK for lubing the journals etc. However, if the engine (motor) is going to sit for awhile unused you should use an engine (motor) rebuilding grease that won't seep away.

goff wrote:I thought all rings came already gapped on pistons nowadays,don't forget this lad is learning and if he removes the rings will probably break one if not more removing or refitting them ,be care full fitting the pistons in the bores , make sure they are compressed properly ,don' trap the rings in the compressor and use plenty of engine oil, don't be frightened of oil every where you can wash it of once the engine and box are all built up ,
Goff

Never seen or bought any piston with the rings already fitted, so Ed doesn't know how.

He's gonna need to learn anyway

Smiffy wrote:

ianh1968 wrote:Utter cleanliness at all times is a given.

It's a very good idea to pull out all the brass oilway plugs
so you can ensure that the galleries are all swarfe-free.

There are 4 large ones, 2 at the front and 2 at the rear.
There are also some smaller ones in the oil-pressure
valve area. Mine all get threaded to take 1/4" and 1/8"
BSP plugs. If you do this, make sure you don't wind the
oil pump one in so far that it blocks off the feed to the
front gallery.

Make sure you put the centre main cap on the right way
round... Did you centre-punch it to give yourself a clue
later on?

I always squirt engine oil into the crank oilways before
putting on the main and big-end caps. I also grease the
shells and the thrust washers.

Make sure that the triangular cam thrust plate is fitted
with the white-metal towards the back-plate & cam.

Always check the cam/crank timing. The "join-the-dots"
method is not always accurate and it is easy to get the
whole thing one tooth wrong and it will still look right.

As was found out on here recently, be sure to get the
distributor drive spindle in the correct orientation.

Be sure to put in the block to gearbox 'O' ring!

Before you fire it up, spin the engine over to get oil pressure.
You should be able to get full pressure on the starter motor.

You can do this before you put the engine in:
Just fill the oil filter and as many other places as possible
with oil, and spin it over with no plugs.

Sometimes it takes a while, the secret is to try to get as
much air out of the system as possible before you start
cranking it over.

Where to stop?

Good luck!

Ian

Plus don't forget to gap the rings, probably the most important job for good results.

yep...all good tips.
Bottom line though with every rebuild is 'CHECK EVERYONE'S ELSES WORK'
Measure and check any and every machining or subcontracted work before proceeding.
Journal diameters, end floats, clearances etc.
No-one will listen to you if you just put it back together and complain of something you missed and its got a noise or vibration or something.
Its also a great time to do simple maintenance like replacing driveshaft seals, gearchange seals, speedo drive pinion square and cable condition, and other tricky stuff with it out of the car.
What was the clutch like too...It easy to replace a tiny grumbly release bearing or a driven plate now...
have fun....Michael

i always "pack" the oil pump with grease, that way it can sit and will (if everything else is correctly assembled) build oil pressure quickly.
as others have stated, check every thing, even if the shop said its been done. trust no one.
and work clean, you can't be too clean.

If the first time, I'd have someone with me who's done it before. That is VERY educational.

There have been shelves of books written on the subject. Calver did one several years back which would be helpful to you. I assembled my first engine 52 years ago. That was about the same time I studied in school about some guy who came up with the idea of building all gun parts the same, interchangeable bits. Well this is not the case with engines. My point is the main caps front center and rear must go in the correct location with the locking lips/ bearing tangs to the same side of the block. While all three main caps are different the center can be installed wrong way around if the locking lips are not together. The rod caps are machined in place each cap must go back on the correct rod again correct way around locking lips together and due to the misalignment of cyl. bores to rod journals the rods have an offset. The simple way to look at them is the big end offset goes away from it's closest main. Some rods and caps are numbered most are not. Stripping I remove one rod at a time and replace it's cap as soon as it's out. Same going together one at a time. Another problem area for new builders is thrust washers. They can be installed wrong way around and this will kill a crank in short order. There is a bronze side and a steel side the steel side goes against the cap/ block on all four. I keep three torque wrenches on hand when building. 1/4 , 3/8, and 1/2 drive. Every fastener has a correct torque value and should be torqued as you go.

This is engine building time here. I did a 1275 GT thursday and friday last week hope to get a Moke 850 done today and tomorrow, then it's a 1071 S followed by an A+ 1330. I'll have a SPI and 1300 Inno coming in the shop by the end of the month. Take your time and clean is the key. Steve (CTR)

greyghost wrote:i always "pack" the oil pump with grease

Yep, me too... Just forgot to put that one on the list....

A bone-dry pump may struggle to suck the oil vertically from the sump!

And, get this, I agree with Smiffy...

The rings should be checked. Because of block-boring tolerances,
and possibly even the temperature of the block when it was bored,
the ring gaps cannot be assumed to be OK.

If the bores are a bit tight, and the rings are too long, they will
very likely cause a problem... But only after you have assembled the
engine and by this time you will not know that this has happened.

mini63 wrote:'CHECK EVERYONE'S ELSES WORK'

This means the rings, too, sorry!

Some pistons do come with the rings on them: Take them off and check
them. Make sure that you know which ring came from which slot, and also
WHICH WAY UP it was. Some are marked "Top". Others are just a "shape"
that needs to go the right way.

CooperTune has a good tip about the Centre-Main, the shell tags should be
on the same side. Is this 100%? I don't know, so I always punch-mark
mine on dis-assembly, just to be sure... The good thing about the punch-mark
idea is that you can see that you got it right without having to take the cap off
again, "just to make sure"...

And I also punch-mark the rods. One dot, two dots, three dots etc. I do this
on the main part, and next to it on the "cap" part. See above, regarding tags,
probably applies here too.

Also be sure to check the idler thrust clearance and the primary gear as well...

Take the oil pump to bits and decide if you want to re-use it. If you are changing
to a "spider" drive cam, don't forget to install the "spider"...

While you are checking the oil pressure... Ian

Thanks guys!

I've changed rings one engines before, but never had a crank out, It was an MGB I did, and left the engine in place and dropped the sump!!

This engine is for a customer.

It looks like his engine had been rebuilt at some point, the timing chain and oil pump look like new. When you say pack the pump, do you mean just fill it with oil!!? (sorry!!)

The rods had been punched 1, 2, 3 and 4 already. I did mark the centre main, as I thought to myself, that looks like it can go on the wrong way!!

I did one at a time with the caps, and put them back finger loose.

However!

The original block was goosed, so I sent away a spare block I had, and the pistons, crank etc, and they came back on friday... The pistons had new rings fitted by the machine shop, and they supplied new bearings for the reground crank etc...

I'll be swapping over the oil pump onto the new (to him!!) block. I kept the timing chain on the two cogs when I took them off. I also took them off with the dots in line, and marked the chain/cogs in a couple of places with a permanent marker to make sure it all went back on the same!

Ive kept the cam followers and the pushrods all numbered!

I'll have a good sweep and vac up before I start for sure!! I have one of these engine stand jobbies, so that should keep it away from muck and such!

Thanks again chaps!

I might just stick to bodywork!! Hahaa!

Ed

tedmcedd wrote:When you say pack the pump, do you mean just fill it with oil!!? (sorry!!)

Ed, I actually use proper grease, LM (Lithium Based?), the "normal" stuff... This will not drain away.

tedmcedd wrote: The pistons had new rings fitted by the machine shop

I'd still take them off to check them, just to be sure...

Remember:

mini63 wrote: 'CHECK EVERYONE'S ELSES WORK'

Ian

I've not heard of packing the oil pump with grease before, instinctively I would have been worried that it would take too long to be forced through the smaller holes before it got to the journals.

I always take the banjo joint out and pump oil into both the block and filter and then turn the engine over without the plugs, the pressure has always come straight up

timo wrote:I always take the banjo joint out and pump oil into both the
block and filter and then turn the engine over without the plugs,
the pressure has always come straight up

I do this as well as greasing the pump. I also fill the filter, but before
I fit it... I let it stand, then top it up again just before it goes on.

The grease just makes sure that the rotor assembly in the pump
is "air-tight" and gives it the maximum chance of pumping fairly
quickly. If you oil the pump immediately before cranking, there
should be no problems. If an engine has sat for a while and does
not get either the grease or the oil-priming treatment, it may take
a while to get the pressure up.

The fresh oil will soon catch up and will dilute with the grease.

If you have a "banjo" then I am guessing that you do not have a
cooler installed? I have found that systems pressure up much
easier with no cooler in place. When one is fitted, there is a lot
more dead air in the system that just gets pushed around before
the reading appears on the gauge.

Ian