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Hi folks, being a tightfisted Scotsman, I've been doing research into "economical options" for roll cages rather than Safety Devices or Rollcentre.

I have a certificated welder on hand that does all the shell restoration etc, who is more happy to weld a cage together.

Just wondering what the thoughts are on weld in rather than bolt in? I like the idea of buying most/all of the tubes bent and cut to shape / length to weld together, but then adding extra tubes (as allowed by the regs) to supplement a basic "6 point" cage.

[tin of worms]?

Jamie McDonald
http://www.McDonald-Minis.co.uk

jamie

the problems with home made cages is that they can cause concerns for scruitneers as there is no way of knowing how good the welds & designs are.

the advantage of safety devices / roll centre / gartrack is that they are of a known quality so scruitneers will just look at the label and move on to moaning about cut off pull cords that dont work etc!

also, at certain levels of motorsport the car will need to have its cage paper work with it to prove its been tested/inspected - without this paper work you cannot race.

again, as people like safety devices have paid for all the tests for their products its far less hassle

you would have to be confident that your man could assemble a weld in cage in such a way to ensure a perfect weld right around every tube.

Anyone know who's is the historic Mini on custom cages website?

It's bound to result in a stiffer shell than a bolt in 6 point job?

ceejam wrote:Anyone know who's is the historic Mini on custom cages website?

It's bound to result in a stiffer shell than a bolt in 6 point job?

I think so but at that price (1440 +VAT fitted) they look an absolute bargain. As the old lady in the Robertson jam commercial used to say, "Why make your own?"

The farcicalness of the roll cage situation is best summed up by a friend who put a welded cage into a BMW 3 series. Ok, different car, but same problem.

Official cage arrives as pile of tubes, but has this piece of paper saying that all is fine with design and tube quality. To fit it he has to cut holes in the floor to get the hoops in and positioned for welding. Now the spec is cold drawn seamless. So he phones the cage supplier and says "I can't get a complete weld round the joints because the car is in the way and what about the effect of the weld heating on the tube" Reply "don't worry, because nobody else does including the scruntineers" apparently up to and including WRC level.

just knock up a copy of a safety devices one and I'll bet you can buy one of their stickers on Ebay...... probably have a spelling mistake though

I have tube bender you can have a loan of if you want, just give me a shout

Al

I did wonder about that - Safety Devices sell their stickers on ebay

Save your self a couple of pounds, saftey devices will give you a sticker if you ask nicely.

I will say it as no one else has. Its your roof and neck. Buy a cage and don't be a tight twat.

I have used my saftey devices cage and it work's.

IAIN wrote:Save your self a couple of pounds, saftey devices will give you a sticker if you ask nicely.

I will say it as no one else has. Its your roof and neck. Buy a cage and don't be a tight twat.

I have used my saftey devices cage and it work's.

I was always planning to buy a cage - just investigating options that may end up better than a Safety Devices cage for less cash, but I have a lead on a new unused SD cage, hopefully for less money than brand new

The proper silver homologation sticker from Saftey Devices is £20 and is a tamper proof. To get one you'll need to send photos of the feet of your cage showing the serial number

My father in law got turned away from a sprint due to the cage in the car being home made and not welded fully around the top near the roof! Cost him entrance fees and fuel getting there.... should have bought a regulated cage
As for not fully welding around the tube and saying that's ok is asking for trouble.... any gaps in the weld around the tube creates a failure/stress point under impact/stress .... fully weld or not at all
If you can manage to weld all around can i suggest you put a Tig root in first and then a Tig cap.... or a Tig root with a Mig cap
George

ceejam wrote:I did wonder about that - Safety Devices sell their stickers on ebay

thats only the makers sticker - they dont sell the homologation serial number stickers - thats the important bit!

You could get the 'Custom Cages' special Historic roll cage.
6 point welding to the shell. With a lot of tubes inbetween.
All tubes bended and ready to weld in. Just needs small improvements with a grinder.
Price: 555 £ + VAT.
Her's the link.
http://www.customcages.co.uk/Rollcage/L ... e=Historic

P.S. We are strongly thinking about buying one of these for our 1275 GT Rally project.
If you want to have the top ends close to the roof welded, cut the roof skin off.
And bond a new roof skin in after you welded the cage.
You need to be a bit of a handy man to do that of course.
Cheers,
Dieter.

If you weld your own cage together - no matter who supplies the tubes - you must stress relieve the welds to achieve maximum strength and toughness safely. If you do not know how to stress relieve welds, then you should not be welding your own cage.

Mine is a bolt in one from Bond Roll bars in Australia. It uses joints that are no longer FIA compliant, so I will be getting a new one welded in when I get home.

cheers
michael

The last 4 race cars we've built, Aston DB4, 8 port Mini, FIA Mini, Sebring Sprite have all had bespoke T45 cages by Gartrac. Absolutely faultless and, as people to deal with, highly recommended.

They are currently putting one in a 105E Anglia we are building so, as my only issue with them is that they are so busy so getting a car booked in can take some time, Therefore I decided to get an "off the shelf" cage for the FIA Mini we are currently building for my co-driver Paul Tarry.

I bought a T45 cage in kit form from Custom Cages and admittedly, I have had it on the shelf unopened for a couple of months as the shell (bought through this forum) was not at all as described and required extensive work.

For clarity, the member who posted the shell advertisement did so for someone else and was not at all responsible for the gross misrepresentation of the vendor, who could not lie straight in bed. But that is another story.

This week, we started installing the cage in the workshop's of one of Tony Pattison's associates as it is close to the guy welding it in. Kane is a fully qualified and certified welder who used to work for Safety Devices.

Tony and I opened the sealed plastic package of shorter tubes and once having placed the front and rear hoops in position, we immediately realised a number of tubes were missing. Stuart, the workshop owner arrived and laughed at our predicament explaining that another of his customers had a similar problem and when he phoned Custom Cages they just sent the missing tubes without question.

So, we did the same but their argument was that "at packaging, it had been checked twice as being complete" however they agreed to send the missing tubes.

Today, we needed to contact them again as the instructions provided and website illustration simply do not detail how the rear hoop stays to rear wheel arch brackets are fitted. I should add that it appears they do not sit on top of the arches like most cages but fit inside of the arches on the rear bulkhead on an ill fitting two piece bracket.

So we contacted them to be told "we've tried to get in touch, we believe you have had the missing tubes but we will send them but you have to pay the postage". Do they think we need to con them out of a couple of short lengths of T45?

As for the brackets, the guy there said "they have only ever fitted one, could we tape in place where we think the brackets should go, e-mail him a photograph and he would try to establish if that is correct"

Confidence inspiring or what?

Bottom line is that their rear cage configuration is over complicated and ill fitting, the legs of the front hoop are unequal, their claim in the instructions that no tubes need cutting is false, and frankly I question if they know what they are doing.

We will install our own rear stays and diagonal as per Gartrac's design in my FIA Mini and I shall never go near Custom Cages again.

Oh by the way, during Tony and Kane's deliberations wasting this afternoon, someone else turned up declaring the Custom Cages cage he bought for his Peugeot was also supplied with tubes missing.

As always, you get what you pay for.

somebody i know has been caught out by custom cages in the past

he too, recived a cage that needed a lot of trimming and altering to fit, during a conversation with custom cgaes they admitted that (at the time) they didnt yet have the certifcation for the cage to be used in historics - needless to say, the cage was returned to them post haste as it was not fit for purpose.

this guy builds a lot of cars and recomends safty devices or roll centre for bolt in.

for weld in he has found fabricage (run by ex-safety devices guy) near cambridge to be a fantastic well made and fitted cage - the guy was able to sort out all the certification required for the car to be used in historics