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My car, a 1960 Austin Seven Mini, had been bought by a chap in 1980 and put into a barn. It remained there for over 40 years before he decided to sell it. It was collected by Mathewsons and went under the hammer on 11 Dec 2022. It sold for £2,800 and went to its new owner in Wales.

The new owner set about working on the car but had to give up his workshop and decided to sell the car at auction with Bonhams in Dec 2023, almost exactly a year after they'd got it. For those of you interested, here's the auction listing (link still active at time of writing): https://carsonline.bonhams.com/en/listi ... 50527ca2f2

The auction listing was attractive!

Amongst the eye-catching description:

"This is a very early production MK1 and as such very rare, with only a handful known to still exist."

and

"We don’t know why it was taken off the road but the reasons were probably benign because it emerged in a surprisingly good condition. Sure, it needed a little bodywork but much less than you’d imagine. Some mechanical work too, but the heavy lifting has now been done, which leaves its new owner with the job of finishing it."

That last bit really caught my eye. A car with all the bodywork done? Just needed finishing? Brilliant!

The description continued:

"Choosing colour and trim and the final mechanical specification, which is the best bit, of course. You could keep it as it left the factory, in which case the certificate issued by the British Motor Industry Heritage Trust would prove invaluable in confirming the trim and colour as well as corroborating that this is a ‘matching numbers’ example."

Superb!

The description continued:

"The seller has fitted a few new panels but only a few because that’s all that was needed. New wings, of course, plus A panels, a rear valence and a narrow strip on the boot floor."

This just keeps getting better! An original car with just a few new panels. Sounds perfect.

But the write-up didn't stop there as it added:

"This means your winter project will comprise getting it painted before painstakingly fitting it all back together and how lovely would that be?"

I checked over all of the images. Everything looked just great. I had a niggling voice in my head that said "Buy an abandoned project, buy someone else's problems" but I overrode it. This was a project I could get my teeth into.

My other half was always going on about her first car - a Mini - and so I thought I'd surprise her and buy this.

And so, I bid, and won the auction with a final price of £4,340 including the buyers premium. I thought that was a great price.

Then I had the car transported to my home and ... oh dear

It was immediately apparent that there was no way this car was as described, or as photographed. And therein lies the caution in my tale.

The cabin floor - both inside and out, the boot floor, both inside and out, the exterior of the sills, the toe board, heelboard, wheel arches and interior of the inner wings were all covered in a dull black underseal that I later found is called Tetrosyl Tetroseal. It may protect well but it doesn't photograph well.

It did a fine job of filling gaps and distracting the eye. The best way to remove it, according to Tetrosyl, was with white spirits. I spent hours and hours with the stuff and countless rags. The more I cleaned, the less happy I became with my purchase. In the end, I decided I simply couldn't clean it any more and sent it away to be bead blasted. This is probably the best £1,000 I spent on the car so far.

When it came back, I could see the enormity of the challenge I faced and it was not for the faint hearted.

The front wings, which had been newly fitted, were removed and discarded. Ditto the front panel. The inner wings required significant welding repairs.

The sills and cabin floor were too far gone and were cut out, being replaced with an M-Machine full floor.

The boot floor was like a swiss cheese and a jigsaw puzzle with holes and numerous older patches. The whole thing was cut out and replaced with a single new heritage panel, suitably modified to match that of an early Mk1 car. Also added here were a new valance and valance corner panels with floor strengthening plates.

While we're at this end of the car, the boot hinge and two end panels had been replaced but I couldn't get the boot door to sit right and the welding had burned through in places leaving some interesting damage. In the end, I bought a full heritage hinge panel to see if that will address the problems but, if not, I'll be back to M-Machine for a full boot opening panel.

The companion bins both had rotted out at the base and are both being replaced. The wheel arches have too many patches and are too frilly. They're due to come out shortly.

The rear quarter wings, with filler removed when blasted, were so badly repaired that they'll have to go and be replaced too.

Finally, the doors just don't fit right and the pics even managed to disguise that. They also didn't have the pipe work to drain water away. I've ended up buying new ones as well as replacing one of the door steps (and probably the other too.

In short, the car is now in a less "complete" state than when I bought it. It's taken me a year to undo a lot of stuff that I wasn't happy with and build it back up. There's not a lot of the original car left and that makes me sad but that's the way it is. At least the roof is original. Oh, and the bonnet. And the rear quarter windows, windscreen and rear screen. Everything from the waist rail upwards, really.

I've included a few pics below so you can get an idea. This is the car after it came back from blasting where extra care was taken to use light media. I leave you to opine on the welds and numerous holes while considering the description of the auction listing given above. I'll just say that it's not the standard I would be happy with hence why I've had so much work to do.
Over the last year, I've asked loads of questions and have worked on the car almost daily since I bought it. Today, the car has fewer panels on it when I bought it. I've replaced, repaired, and fabricated panels and there's still a long way to go.

I've learned new skills, especially welding which I'm thoroughly enjoying. Car restoration is, so far, enjoyable. But I've never lost sight of the huge gap between what was advertised, and what I received.

So, here's the advice I would give anyone looking to buy at auction: Go and see the car in person. There's simply no substitute for using your own eyes. Don't believe the 'hundreds of photos from all angles' hype. The only angle you need to see it from is your own.

Good luck!

That's awful, and I can empathise with you. I've been stung a couple of times, granted not to this extent, but I have vowed not to trust anyones opinion but my own from now on. Some people are either deceptive or completely clueless when describing their car and it just isn't worth the risk despite how "genuine" they make themselves out to be through communications. I used to think that my standards were just a bit too high and that I was the one expecting too much but not any more. I'm glad you persevered with it though, as I did.

111Robin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 8:33 am I used to think that my standards were just a bit too high and that I was the one expecting too much ...

Exactly this. Every time I got annoyed when feeling duped by the purchase, I'd ask myself "Is it simply that my standards are higher?"

Sometimes, I'd also ask myself "Am I doing this wrong by cutting out so much of this original car?" That's where this forum comes in. I asked others for their opinions and that helped a great deal.

The original post in this thread is a small part of me giving back to this community. I hope to do more as time progresses.

I work on the basis that cars end up at auctions if they won't sell any other way.
There are bargains to be had of course.
But the panic panic rush rush hurry hurry aspect of auctions is not for the faint hearted or uncertain of mind.

Is "No reserve" a cautionary note?

Wow, well done for persevering and not throwing in the towel when you saw all that. Did you contact the auction house to state that the advert was misleading?

floormanager wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:14 pm Wow, well done for persevering and not throwing in the towel when you saw all that.

I have thought about selling it on once or twice. But there's something about them that gets under your skin

floormanager wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:14 pm Did you contact the auction house to state that the advert was misleading?

I did not. For the simple reason that every time I have seen people do that the auction response tends to be two-fold:

1. We depend on the vendor to provide an honest description
2. There are 'n billion' photographs for you to assess the state of the car

In short, they wash their hands of it.

And that, really, is why I wrote up this cautionary tale. It is sometimes difficult to see what value an online auction house provides, for the money they demand.

So to save myself the angst, I chalk it up to experience and play the hand I've been dealt.

…..just wondering if you would of not bought the car if you had gone to see it ?

The welding is not pretty, but would have been seen as acceptable not that long ago, especially with a skim of filler over the top.

Having a shell blasted also shows up more than you would ever of found otherwise and maybe been nine the wiser ..?

In the end pretty much most major restorations will need a new floor these days……

The car looks very complete, so you could have easily spent £2k plus on a basket case anyway.

It’s a shame you were disappointed, but looks like you are getting in really well, despite an initial setback.

I wouldn’t blame the auction house, the point of an auction is that there isn’t any guarantees and you wave your consumer rights……buying at auction at a distance compounds the risk, maybe Auction houses could do more to explain the risk ?

Exminiman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:31 am …..just wondering if you would of not bought the car if you had gone to see it ?

My answer, based on my experience, is now three-fold

1. Had I inspected the car, looking for a project where I just paint and trim the car, I would've rejected the car and not bid.

2. Had the car been for sale in the classifieds and I went to see it, I would've offered a much lower price and been prepared to walk away

3. Knowing what I know now, I am in two minds about whether I would've bought the car. While I feel it was misrepresented, I have re-discovered the joy in restoring classic cars (my first was an MGB GT in the early 80's).

So, mostly, the answer to your question is 'No. I would not have bought the car'

Exminiman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:31 am The welding is not pretty, but would have been seen as acceptable not that long ago, especially with a skim of filler over the top.

I take your point. At the time of purchase, I was in no position to know any better and so I took advice. Two local mini restoration experts came to look at the car and described the welding as 'poor and dangerous'. They used more robust language and I'm paraphrasing

I can now understand why they said that because when I started to separate part of the hinge panel from the inner wing, some welds just popped apart with little more than a tickle from a chisel. Scary.

Fair to say though, I would not have known that at the time I bought so it wouldn't have affected my bidding position.

Exminiman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:31 am Having a shell blasted also shows up more than you would ever of found otherwise and maybe been nine the wiser ..?

True, but a look over with a strong light would quickly reveal some of the issues that the photos did not. I've posted some of the 'before blasting' images in my earlier posts in the forum, especially the boot sectiion.

Exminiman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:31 am The car looks very complete, so you could have easily spent £2k plus on a basket case anyway.

I agree. The price I paid isn't bad. It's simply that the premise upon which it was offered was flawed. At the time I had no welding or sheet metal skills and would've declined bidding had I known the amount of work that, I felt, was needed. As it turns out, I'm gaining useful skills in that area now. Swings and roundabouts

Exminiman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:31 am I wouldn’t blame the auction house ...

Hmmm. Not sure about that. The auction houses take a very healthy cut for doing not very much, IMHO.

The biggest issue buying a classic is not knowing what lurks beneath the paint. A lot of horrendous bodges can be easily covered with sealer/filler/underseal etc. When I ask a seller who restored it and do they have photo's before paint, if they can't provide this I will just walk. Even viewing such a car isn't a guarantee that it has been properly restored. I've been watching a YouTube video of a company working on a 59 Cadillac for a customer. It was in for a colour change, restored by the previous owner. They uncovered a host of horrendous bodges, including copious amounts of expanding foam, that were outwardly not apparent. Fair enough you say, the current owner had no idea and was perfectly happy with it but the fact that he was duped and probably paid for a top notch car that is now costing an absolute fortune to restore properly just isn't right but it happens too often. I doubt I will ever buy another "restored" classic as I no longer trust anyone. Sad but that's just how I feel.I'd rather buy a wreck and work on it myself.

I admire your tenacity and enthusiasm for getting stuck in and on with what you've got. 10/10 in my opinion. If you lived near Oxford, we could both crack on with your resto. Been helping local friend Clever Trevor assembling the major and smaller sub-assemblies for the past xx years! Good fun and his wife is a dab hand at sausage sarnies and mugs of teat

cobolman wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:37 pm The cabin floor - both inside and out, the boot floor, both inside and out, the exterior of the sills, the toe board, heelboard, wheel arches and interior of the inner wings were all covered in a dull black underseal that I later found is called Tetrosyl Tetroseal. It may protect well but it doesn't photograph well.

It did a fine job of filling gaps and distracting the eye. The best way to remove it, according to Tetrosyl, was with white spirits. I spent hours and hours with the stuff and countless rags. The more I cleaned, the less happy I became with my purchase. In the end, I decided I simply couldn't clean it any more and sent it away to be bead blasted. This is probably the best £1,000 I spent on the car so far.

When it came back, I could see the enormity of the challenge I faced and it was not for the faint hearted.

Seeing the recently applied black Tetrosyl Tetroseal underseal brush coated 'internally' in the floor and boot areas, where it would only be applied to cover problem areas on a 'part restored' car would have made me walk away, whether viewing just the photos or the actual car. But that is only down to past experience...because I bought my first secondhand Minis back in the 1960/70's when most cars rusted quite badly and many were 'MOT repaired' for minimum cost to conceal bodged patch repairs/poor welds/pop rivets/filler/fibreglass mat, etc with a nice thick layer of black underseal before being sold on with a fresh MOT to unsuspecting buyers.

Glad you have not given up though and many thanks for sharing both your good and bad experiences of the auction and restoration process which will help others to avoid some of the pitfalls. Keep asking questions, as you say the Mk1 Forum is a great resource and there is nearly always someone who has the answer to even the most obscure questions and problems on early Minis!

Whether you should or shouldn’t have bought that car is very subjective, I can certainly see things about it which would have put me off for sure.

The separate point about auction houses generally is an interesting topic because I’ve long been of the opinion that they get all the financial rewards of a dealer without doing any of the work or offering any of the consumer rights a dealer has to offer. Neither does the buyer get any of the same advantages of buying from a private seller, ie to properly test the car and question its owner so the auction house gets to have its cake and eat it. That’s a pretty dodgy situation generally and it’s no surprise auction houses get a bad rap, deservedly so in many cases. JayEmm’s example of the clocked Ferrari at Historic Auctioneers’ sale last year is a good example of how they often overlook serious issues with cars they sell and of course we all know why! £££££££…..

https://youtu.be/BMk-HUzc1_A?si=OcDV3VM_apia7NTd

The best approach is not to make any assumptions from the description, which could be highly misleading, go and see the car yourself and make your own mind up. That still doesn’t excuse intentional or negligently misleading descriptions and nor does it give you any reassurances at all of the health of the car mechanically and for that reason I’d still say it’s a much bigger risk to buy from an auction than any other source. It’s a risk you yourself have to decide is worth taking or not. An apparent bargain can suddenly turn into a complete money pit. A “rebuilt engine” can quickly turn into a pile of scrap, it’s a gamble!

Having said that I still think auction houses need to be brought a little more in line with car dealers in terms of consumer rights, as you say they get paid handsomely enough and wash their hands of any responsibility for the service they provide.

I dont disagree, in the end though I think the contract is with the seller not the auction house, whether you have any recourse with the seller, I doubt it…….the decription is very subjective and vague generally.

In theory you should pay less at auction because of the increased risk…..whether that pans out in reality though is another thing.

For the last 45 years of owning cars I have heard the phrase " dump in in the auctions" too often to believe that bidding on any car that you have not seen is just risky. Even the use of YouTube now by the big auction houses does not replace the benefit of seeing the car in the flesh, note how Matthewsons have now turned off the "Comments" tab on their videos, perhaps too much feedback from the "Rivet counters" has impacted on the sales of less than honest cars. The auctioneers are in the business of connecting bidders to sellers, they are not selling the cars hence their ability to say whatever they like to a point if the seller says it is so.

I've been to plenty of auctions where some real old tat has been sold with a fresh coat of paint and looks wonderful in the photos and on the screen.

No different with modern auctions is it, Imagine how many cars get stuck through auctions nowadays with undetectable wet belt issues or DPF faults, must be a minefield. You’d be unlikely to spot these major issues with a private sale either …until you do! Buyer beware!