mk1-forum.net

There are many types offered (Mini Spares/ Mini Sport just to name 2)
I would just like a standard cone ,no racing or rallying,collector/show car only, approximately 3-5,000 ,miles a year.(63 Austin 850 Saloon ,right hand drive)
Right side sag was thinking to just short cut and put a hilo to adjust

These are made on the Original Dunlop Tooling, with the later original Dunlop Rubber spec and tested on the Original Dunlop Test Rig;-

http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... o%20search

I've tested just about every other Cone on the market, including the Mini Spares EVO Cones and also tried many for road use. I always gravitate back to these 'original' cones. The others for road and even some spirited use, I find hard to just too hard. I'll add though, I have also found, don't buy these and fit them right away, sit them in a cool dark place for at least 6 months before fitting. If you fit them when 'fresh' I found they sag prematurely, though, I don't see why they can't be fitted, but when parked up, put the car on the jack to the point where the wheels are just about to leave the deck. If you were to get in the habit of doing this, they will last a very long time.

So spider the original cones are what MS is referring to from mini sport?

twc641 wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:59 am So spider the original cones are what MS is referring to from mini sport?

In the technical sense, those from Mini Spares, made by M-parts, are the originals. I have read a few sorry stories of these sagging in short time etc, and I've had that too, but, if you leave them for a while as I mentioned, before fitting, I'm sure you'll be happy. Those in my Moke I first fitted in 2016 and apart from an initial settling, have dropped maybe 1/4" at most. I'll add that when I go away in it, I do carry quite a load, often tipping the scales around 1280 kg, though for one trip, it was 1490. The natural thinking would be to go to harder cones, which I have tired and didn't like. In my Minis, I found they had a nice ride to them and again, after leaving them for some time before fitting, I found they hardly sagged.

Those from Mini Sport are 'original' cones only in that they bought the original patent. They are not original in the way most people would think of what 'original' is. You only need look at the plate in the centre to see they are worlds apart. It's not just that it appears a solid thick plate that makes them different here, but that plate on the rubber side is flat, where as the originals are a pressed dome. This change here greatly changes the spring and change of rate characteristics.

Here's a cross section drawing of part of the front suspension;-



You can see the dome shape in the centre of the Cone. The Mini Sport ones (made by Avon last time I looked) is a flat plate here, making the rubber there thicker, which overall, makes the ride much harder.

Spider ,
Thank you for the additional information as i will keep this all in mind.....
6 months in a dark cool place ,what exactly does that do to the cone?

I've heard very good things about the Mini Sport "Smootharide" set up sorted by Alex Moulton himself,supposedly give an excellent ride for road cars.

twc641 wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 11:44 am Spider ,
Thank you for the additional information as i will keep this all in mind.....
6 months in a dark cool place ,what exactly does that do to the cone?

I'm not a chemist, so I can't really say, but I just put it that it allows the rubber to mature or finish maturing.

They are made using heat and pressure. It possibly has something to do with that ?

You are dead right Spider. I couldn't think of how to put it. This was a feature of tracked armoured vehicle 'hush-puppy' type rubberised bolt-on track pads. (they bolt through the standard steel tracks and are used on the roads. Easy to remove with a spanner if needed across country) Used from new, they would shred within a month or so. Following on from that, they are left to mature for 6+ months in store and then used.

Is there date stamped when they were manufactured ?( would be a good selling point to the buyer knowing they were already matured!!!)
If not how do you Know when the rubber is matured?
color, density meter ?

northern monkey wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 2:57 pm I've heard very good things about the Mini Sport "Smootharide" set up sorted by Alex Moulton himself,supposedly give an excellent ride for road cars.

I fitted a Smootha ride kit to my Moke several years ago and it transformed the ride, it really was excellent when they were new. The Moke had spent its life under a heavy fibreglass hardtop and the rear cones were just about flat. At the time I replaced them (in 2003) they would have been 24 years old. The Smootharide cones have sagged a lot now and the ride has become quite hard again, especially in the rear, but looking at the calendar another 20 years has passed!

I need new cones, but budget is tight so I'm not sure which way to go. The Smootha ride cones are 20-25% more expensive than the standard "more genuine than the ones the other mob sells".

Tim

This is my experience with the "Competition uprated rubber Mini suspension cone" from Minsport. 5yrs running, 50% spirited road/race. Taken from the left front, rhd car. Original on the right for ref.

My friend had the “smooth a ride” minisport ones in his mini for a few years. They are fine if you like a tall factory ride height, as they are quite soft. If you like your mini low like he did, then it will bottom out and scrape the tyres on the body

I wonder just how long the factory expected the cones to actually last...to be fair the cars probably aren't daily drives? / first cars anymore,but 20 years is a hell of a long time for a suspension component to last especially one made of rubber...i know that on my modern cars i have all shock absorbers changed at 60,000 max (sometimes less) but that is obviously affected by a whole host of things,road surface driven on ,driving style,weight,performance etc etc etc.
So did Austin ,Morris,leyland,Rover issue a lifespan for cones or was it down to owner ? M.O.T. inspectors ? servicing garage to judge ??

Mick

Thank you all for your input.........

I'm about to install some red dot cones from MiniSpares into my rallycar - nice to hear my procrastination of having them sit on the shelf is going to pay off!

I think I can conceptualize the letting them sit idea...but how do we know when they were manufactured? Some could have been in a warehouse for months or more while others may have been made a week ago. And now I'm thinking more about it - what happens when those become a mix/matched set on the same car?

One of mine has a sticker on it that looks like it was white at one point in time - has now yellowed...wonder how long that has been around even though I just purchased it last year.

Pat

northern monkey wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 10:50 am I wonder just how long the factory expected the cones to actually last...to be fair the cars probably aren't daily drives? / first cars anymore,but 20 years is a hell of a long time for a suspension component to last especially one made of rubber...i know that on my modern cars i have all shock absorbers changed at 60,000 max (sometimes less) but that is obviously affected by a whole host of things,road surface driven on ,driving style,weight,performance etc etc etc.
So did Austin ,Morris,leyland,Rover issue a lifespan for cones or was it down to owner ? M.O.T. inspectors ? servicing garage to judge ??

Mick

In the rail industry Metalastic components (resilient mounts and rubber suspension elements) have an expected life of 6-8 years - a few last 16 years (e.g. secondary supension auxiliary springs).
Degradation time of rubber very much depends on:

• subject to high/low UV-exposure
• load (static/dynamic/amount) - where a high static load is detrimental
• exposure to chemicals (petro-chemicals/etc)
• quality of the base material
• etc.

failure modes and evidence:

• surface crazing (usually not much of an issue)
• permanent deformation
• de-lamination
• internal cracking
• etc.

It seems from the engineering drawing shown elsewhere that while the rubber part is shaped like a doughnut, it is permanently in 'shear' mode. That can't help much I'm sure. Modern uses have the thick doughnut working in pure compression mode from what I can see. But having a hydrolastic car I've never really taken much notice of rubber cone suspenders. More of a white nylon man myself!

northern monkey wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 10:50 am So did Austin ,Morris,leyland,Rover issue a lifespan for cones or was it down to owner ? M.O.T. inspectors ? servicing garage to judge ??

Mick

Austin, Morris, Leyland, Rover would have expected the average Mini to have rusted away or become an old banger/uneconomic repair case within 7-10 years so I doubt they were that concerned about the lifespan of the rubber cones...
MOT inspectors sometimes did a 'bounce' test which did not really work with rubber cones, so unless ride height had dropped (usually due to worn knuckle joints/cups) or a damper/shock absorber was visibly leaking it was usually a pass.

Back in the day I don't remember any Mini owner routinely replacing cones during the lifetime of an average Mini and once it was at 'banger/weld it up' for a couple more MOT's stage the lower ride height and hard ride was the least of your worries...
Cone failures over time did seem to become more of an issue when BL announced they had changed the grade of rubber used to manufacture cones to improve ride quality, from memory when the Mk4 Mini appeared in the 1980's?

In the 1970's before different grades of cones were available for competition, etc we would drill holes in the rear rubber cones on our lightweight Special Saloon race Mini to soften them up a little.....I think the same method was recommended by some fibreglass Mini based kit car manufacturers.

Some interesting info and photos from Keith Dodd of Minispares in his article on the various cones below.

Mini Dunlop Suspension, Cones and Hydrolastic Unit - October 2015:-
"During a trip in 1984/5 to Ivra the Mini and Innocenti parts manufacturer and stockist in Milan I noticed some strange shaped rubber suspension cones that transpired to have been used on the heavier Innocenti 120 mini, produced from 1978 that was fitted with the 1275cc British Leyland power plant producing 74BHP. The Mini 90/120 cars production had finished by 1982 and having never seen this shape cone before I was intrigued enough to buy 100 for trial and found positive results and great feedback from rally drivers and performance mini owners, so I purchased the remaining stock of about 800 in January 1986 which lasted until 1993. It transpired Dunlop developed this shape to stop body roll on this taller heavier hatchback model to help change the ride over the cobbled or undulating Italian streets.
I contacted Dunlop about these special rubber cones with patent number 620734 but they were very reluctant to offer any help as they held the patents with BL/Rover, but having had 5000 of the Cooper S Wheels 21A1286 remade in 1980 by Dunlop I managed to find out from my contacts the bad news that the tooling had been scrapped and they had no interest in resurrecting the product (the same old sad story would unfold similar to the hydrolastic units)."

"The yellow dot C-STR688 which helped cut down lap times and help win races. Over an average Miglia race season of up to 15 races our new cones springs might only need changing 2-3 times whereas the original standard FAM3968 from Rover would not even last more than a few laps in a Miglia race car, this was the appliance of science, in action.
Mini Spares own C-STR687 road use performance cone springs marked with a red dot gives such a good ride using them on the front by stopping excess body roll with a more supple and compliant ride ,they are even favored over the standard cone spring by many enthusiast mini owners but because of the design difference Hilo's must be fitted, but with the correct combination of dampers you have the complete suspension package. The original Innocenti cones were the same height as the genuine FAM3968 but our C-STR687 and 688 are shorter in height at about 85mm new, but the different shape and rubber compound give them an initial higher ride height."
The Full Article Here:-
http://www.minispares.com/article/Minis ... Suspension

Minispares red dot cones are dated on the outside of and the top of the upper rim it's week number and year.

I've got some that are week 10 year 2009 they have been on the car for all of that time with the weight on them but maybe done 10k miles if that and are almost identical in shape to the new ones

I'd highly recommend them (red spots) for any mini

My new ones were about 3 months old when bought. They settle after they have been through a few heat cycles (they warm up through use) mine dropped after the first couple of sessions at Blyton and the car is now at the same height as it was on the old ones. I was reassured that this would happen by Steve at MED and he reassured me it would (talking from his seven/miglia experience) and he was right.