Electronic ignition

[Robbie224]

Hi. What are other owners thoughts on converting a 71 GT to electronic ignition? Any one done it.
What are the advantages apart from less maintenance.? Any thoughts appreciated as its something I'm considering.
Thanks Rob

[johnv]

Definite yes from me. Saves blaming the condenser every time there's a misfire for a start! I use all my cars and it's one of several small concessions to modernity that keep that cars reliable without being obtrusive. IMO

[timmy201]

The other advantage is that the 4 lobes on the distributor are likely a bit worn by now and might not give you even firing on all cylinders. A quality electronic ignition kit will have evenly spaced triggers

[Polarsilver]

My version failed .. only then did i read the instructions (which i should have done in the first place ) that tell me that copper HT Leads were not allowed to be used .. so i went back to Points that i can fix when needed at anytime .. never been a issue since.

[Fanfaniracing]

I use electronic ignition on all my Minis and Vespas.

I will use them and don't annoy me with unreliable ignotion stuff...

[Andrew1967]

Accuspark transformed my pick up BUT I’ve heard of failures and then you’re f***ed if out anywhere.

As always modern repro Lucas stuff is pure garbage … the only way is to buy proper new old stock Lucas stuff. Never had an issue on my other Minis and never felt it necessary to convert to electronic.

I always carry a spare set points and condenser but have never had to use them.

[Peter Laidler]

Electronic. Clearly worked 100% for you fanfan. But, alas, not so for many others.
Next time we meet, ask me about the twin electronic Boyer ignition on my up-till-then trusty old Norton Commando. Got me to Leeds, but, no further.........

A lad on a passing 650 Triumph stopped and helped. The irony and humiliation of it........ Being helped by a Triumph owner. My Commando got points thereafter!

[CooperTune]

I installed electronic pickup in my 1985 1000E following a complete rebuild in early 2000. It was my daily driver for the next 176,000 miles, The unit was in the 998 till a bypass hose failed on a 20 degree day. The 998 was replaced with a 1360 Cooper S power unit and a three clock pod. The same pickup was installed and has given good service since. In one of the rear companion boxes there is a Band aid box with points, condenser a small screw driver and wrench and a match book. Steve (CTR)

[Robbie224]

Thanks everyone. Read every reply. My GT is a rebuild including engine/gearbox ect which includes a new distributor so nothing would be worn. My first car in the 80s was a mini and I remember the troublesome points ect. GT runs lovely as it is. Main reason for my questions are is electronic ignition replacement and removing the points ect a good idea in a future proofing sort of way with possible better ignition firing ect.
Which electronic ignition unit do owner who already switched recommend?
Thank you

[111Robin]

Points aren't troublesome, they are just an on/off switch, far more robust than an electronic switch. Check and adjust using a dwell meter and that's it. They were on every car into the early 80s and no one thought twice about them. Pros and cons as always but I know which I'd rather have as it's so easy to eliminate them from a non starting ignition issue with a test lamp.

[Fanfaniracing]

I have used these a lot and never had an issue: http://minispares.com/product/Classic/E ... o%20search

On my 8 Port i use the Swiftune CSI

https://swiftune.com/parts-shop/ignitio ... s-23d.html

[Smiffy]

Had one of these fitted for over 15 years,
https://www.mm-4x4.com/electronic-conve ... 2721-p.asp

[LarryLebel]

123 system on my Traveller. With EI your Mini will start easier, run better and have more HP.

[iain1967s]

A bit off topic, but the theory behind this is something that has bugged me for years, so I’ve spent some time trying to understand the various compromises inherent in the standard points setup vs electronic ignition.

The main problems with points ignition all seem to be a result of merging of the HT and low voltage circuits, as auto-transformers such as the Lucas type ignition coil are cheaper to design and manufacture than a true primary & secondary iron core transformer with independent windings.

When the points open to collapse the magnetic field in the coil primary [12v DC] winding, the EMF induced in the secondary [HT] winding has to find a path to close the circuit, and because one end of the HT coil secondary winding is connected to the SW terminal, that HT return path also goes via the points.

Since the HT is a high voltage but low current and short duration pulse, a condenser (capacitor) is provided across the points to provide a low impedance path for that HT to reach the outer electrode of the spark plug, and then jump to the center electrode and back to the other end of the HT coil winding. This condenser also helps avoid the HT from having to jump across both the points gap and the spark plug gap, reducing the ionization erosion and oxide build-up on the contact points themselves.

So you would think a larger capacitance in the condenser would mean a stronger spark at the plug? Not so...

The ability [aka strength] of the spark depends how easily the condenser can pass the HT pulse. If the plug gap is too great, or the condenser is too low capacitance, the combined impedance of the condenser plus the resistance of the air gap of the plugs and points exceeds the breakdown voltage of the HT, and the spark fails. Whereas if the condenser has too high capacitance, it will act as a low resistance [DC short circuit] across the points, preventing the 12v side of the coil from even creating sufficient field in the first place, and the spark fails.

[for anyone with an electronics or ham radio background, the circuit is similar to a ‘tuned’ LRC to match capacitance in the condenser against the inductance of the coil]

Other than less wear on mechanical contact points, the real advantage of electronic ignition is that they switch using a semiconductor that allows a direct path for the HT pulse to get to the spark plug without having to overcome the the impedance of the condenser or jump the points air gap. So the plug gap can be opened wider, whilst maintaining the same overall impedance of the circuit. As the plug is where we actually want the gap to happen, wider spark means better chance of efficient ignition of the mixture, so it’s a win-win solution.

Another advantage of some electronic systems, is that they generate multiple sparks per firing stroke. MSD (multi spark discharge) uses a large capacitor to store charge and then releases that in a quick series of pulses rather than a single spark, which generates more of an arc than a spark - a bit like the 'buzz box' used on early Ford cars. Although this can cause problems with tachometers, especially the induction type (Smiths RVI).

The main disadvantage of electronic ignition is that it's a black box, you can't make any adjustment or fix things if they break at the roadside... in particular the semiconductors don't like continuous current as that generates heat and quickly burns out the internal junctions. So if a coil goes short-circuit or the + and - wires get swapped around, it's game-over unless the electronic module has some form of internal protection.

Having said all that, I run a points distributor on my Mk1 mini but I use a premium points and condenser from Martin the Distributor Doctor, not the modern Lucas junk…

I also had a 123 distributor on a 1380 with no issues, and I've used powerspark briefly too. Both good systems if connected up properly, although the +ve earth version of the powerspark is a bit of a faf to wire up.

By the way, modern cars do not use an auto-transformer coil, they have a separate coil pack on every spark plug, and separate switched low voltage primary vs high voltage secondary, avoiding the shared return-path problem entirely. I think the later SPI and MPI minis do that too, albeit with wasted spark system using two coils across four cylinders, rather than one coil pack per cylinder.

[Andrew1967]

As said, I fitted an Accuspark to my pick up and it really did transform it. Started easy, very smooth running, picked from from very low RPM in the gears. Overall much much better than the conventional system.

Can't vouch for longevity as I sold it not long afterwards to fund HOY

However, always was concerned that if it packed up, there was nothing you can do with it other than revert back to points/condenser on the side of the road.

[floormanager]

Buy parts from Distributor Doctor, you'll get quality. He's never had a faulty condenser. I thought I had one but it was the points had closed up. I like the fact I can see what's happening and can check for sparks, voltage etc and hey, even remove the condenser if it fails to get me going. Electronics are great, until they are not, then they are a black box.

The other point with electronic points is setting them up on a new build engine. Can't static time them.

[1071 S]

Electronic is ignition is great.... until it stops working. BTDT... Virtually impossible to trouble shoot.

Car stops,no spark, remove system, re -install points, send unit away to expert, expert returns system having tested and found no fault. ...?????.... probably a bad earth.

I’ll probably re-install it when I get around to it.

Cheers, Ian

[1071 S]

B

The other point with electronic points is setting them up on a new build engine. Can't static time them.

You can...

Get a transistor (any small portable?) radio. Set it off station so that you get a nice background hash (white noise) and place near distributor. Twist dizzie as you would to set points. When the electronic unit triggers (points open) you will get a nice burst of static. Exactly the same as the light indicating to opening of points...

Cheers, Ian

[johnv]

I carry a spare electronic ignition, they're only £30, just swap it in 5 minutes if you suspect it's stopped working (which none of them ever has ...)

[timmy201]

The one electronic module I killed was due to me “fault finding” and hooking it up backwards. They don’t like that