Idler gear bearing shaft length

[rolesyboy]

I built a 3 sync B-type 22G68 gearbox up recently. The engine is ready to go on top.
I went to set the idler gear end float and realised that I have 5 idler gears with the longer spigot on the gearbox side (1 1/4" long Vs 7/8") and none with the equal length spigots. (I can't find the part numbers but I am certain that there was one with equal lengths)
When I slide the idler gear in to the new bearing the 1 1/4" spigot bottoms out on the eyes of the retaining circlip.
Having heated the case to get the bearing in I see no reason why I cant do away with the circlip as it is a tight fit.
There will be an overhang of the shaft but to my mind this will be adequately supported by the bearing and it doesn't intrude in to the gearbox
Does this sound a reasonable work-around to folks with experience of building these type of boxes?
Thanks
Mark

[EAVB]

Sounds feasible to me, should someone cleverer come along and point out the error of your ways I have several of the short shaft idler gears if you want to swap any.

[Polarsilver]

Without fully seeing the set up that you have .. i would Not do away with that Circlip & would also think about shortening that to long Shaft Length so as it then becomes suitable in its length .. unless you can find a correct item. just my thoughts.

[CooperTune]

I have spent the last couple days assembling a four synchro remote. Once I discovered rod change it seems I never went back to remotes. Now I find myself with 8 four synchro remotes as well as a 333 and 190 three synchro to do. I'm a little crazy about cleaning and laying out the parts. I have people who are willing to come spend three days with me to learn about rebuilding trannys. My good friend Mr Bill was asking about the four synchro idler bearing snap rings. They look at first glance like out side snap ring. Truth is they are inside snap rings made so the long idler shaft will pass though without contact. Acquire a correct snap ring and you are on your way. Four synchros carry a snap ring on both sides of the idler bearing. Steve (CTR)

[Aussie Bill B]

As per comments by CooperTune regarding the circlips: have come up against this issue too.
Photo of the bearing and the internal circlips for either side, for my 22G1128 4 synchro remote box. Normal internal circlips have ears that stick out too far and foul the idler shaft. These circlips are what 'Steve' means, I think.

[mk1]

I agree with the 2 comments above. Don't just remove the circlip, it WILL walk out over time. If you can't get the correct circlip, then just grind the lugs off so the idler shaft can slide through unhindered.

[rolesyboy]

Well a real mixed response to this post and other opinions from those who I regard as expert.
Probably 50/50 on balance.
Anyway I have gone with the suggestion of using the alternative circlip with the lower profile as a belt and braces approach.
Thanks for the input from forum members and thanks to Jason who has gone the extra mile and posted me the correct circlip. Legend!

[mk1]

Great result!

[CooperTune]

If there is anything I like to do it's take pictures. I assure you if I ever learn to post pictures I'll drive everyone crazy. Thanks for posting it clears it up. Steve (CTR)

The first motion shaft outer support bearing outer race will walk out also if the retaining ring is not installed.

[rolesyboy]

Having taken the ‘safety’ route to prevent the bearing from walking I am sorry to say that the circlip from a 4 sync box is in fact too big. Bah- Foiled again

[CooperTune]

I was at the shop yesterday working on a 998 Cooper engine rebuild. Due to 333 shortage I'm using 1128s. I drug out a 333 box and a 1128 snap ring and you are correct the snap ring won't fit. While I did not take the time to cut one down, I believe it would be possible to remove one of the ends with the hole and work one into place. Steve (CTR)

[rolesyboy]

Thanks Steve. I saw the earlier comment about removing the ends. The question then is how do you get the thing in with no eyes for circlip pliers. Thereafter how would you get it back out? Cheers. Mark

[Andrew1967]

Not sure if this will work but if you look at a laygear internal bearing retainer the ends are tapered to a point. This means you can get a thin bladed screwdriver or the like and get under the point and prise the clip out of the groove.

With a suitably modified circlip, maybe that would solve the issue ?

[rolesyboy]

Nice one Andrew.

[CooperTune]

I was thinking about keeping one of the tiny holes to work with. I did not check axle and pot output shaft wire retaining rings. But you get the idea. Steve (CTR)

[scooperman]

The Somerford site claims this:

"The 3 synchro 22A304 idler gear may be replaced by the equivalent gear from the 4 synchro gearbox, 22G943, so long as the original circlip retaining the idler gear bearing in the gearbox case is replaced with a 22G1141 circlip."

However, they go on to say the 22G1141 is NLA.
Just based on measurements of an old 22G1141 clip, there appears to be a suitable substitute available from McMaster-Carr, their p/n 90442A509.



I dont know what was being considered when they changed the idler design from the 22A304 to the 22G943 with its longer shaft, because the longer shaft just sticks through the same 3/4" wide bearing as before. The 22G943 long shaft has more than an inch of stickout (technical term) past the thrush washer, the bearing supports less than 3/4" of that. Why not put a bearing there?

The last digits on the common INA and NSK bearing part numbers indicate the width in sixteenths, I might try putting two of the narrower 12XX bearings in the gearbox, as there is a bit over 1.2" of depth in the bearing hole in the gearbox to support all of the 22G943 shaft. The INA examples would be SCE-128 (1/2" wide), SCE-129 (9/16" wide), SCE-1210 (5/8") wide.