mk1-forum.net

A recent discussion on 'The Mini Forum' about relocating the Mini petrol tank for extra safety, reminded me of this extract from a TV documentary made several years ago about the early Minis and their extended fuel tank filler neck....@3.15 in video:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEbmPsukEHI

Saloon Under Floor Fuel Tank:-
https://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/t ... fuel-tank/

Mini filler in a much better place than an MGB or the MkI and MkII Cortinas.

And as for the under seat idea for the tank, have any of those kids tried getting fuel into a Mk1 Metro. (And i'm surprised the IVA police on that site haven't chipped in with their thoughts)

How many classic minis have burst into flames in an accident due to the petrol tank exploding?
I’d suggest that the occupants of a mini have worse things to worry about in a huge impact.

Judging a 1950s design by modern standards, why?

My series three xj6 had two 11.5 gallon tanks-
I only ever brimmed them once before a family holiday to Cornwall-fortunately it didn’t take too long to reduce the amount of petrol in either tank
I felt much more vulnerable in the jag with that amount of petrol a couple of feet behind the kids than I have ever felt in a mini.

wantafaster1 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:50 pm Judging a 1950s design by modern standards, why?

The chap in the video extract was not judging by modern standards he was showing how the Mini was improved over time, when it was still on sale and Issigonis was still around to discuss safety improvements. The petrol tank neck was shortened and made less protruding, the door locks were changed to anti-burst open design (Mk3), the tip up seats were fitted with lock down catches and the parcel shelf edges were padded (in most models from Mk2), parcel shelf punched full of holes to make it less rigid to knees, rocker switches (Mk3), soft plastic choke/heater knobs....ok not up to the standards of the present day but an easy improvement to a few basic safety aspects none the less...when car manufacturers in the 1960's were saying safety did not sell cars. By luck rather than design it does seem the Mini steering column moved up and away from the driver on impact in a safer way than most other cars of the time, which pushed the steering column straight into the drivers chest!

Atkinson lorries in the 1960’s had fibreglass cabs-when the Swedish invasion started (scania/Volvo)with their steel safety cabs(and they really were) Atkinson actually said in an advert that it was a safety feature to be thrown out of their cab!!
I know where I’d rather be!!

and.rs1800 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:38 pm How many classic minis have burst into flames in an accident due to the petrol tank exploding?
I’d suggest that the occupants of a mini have worse things to worry about in a huge impact.

I think you might find when the Mini was at its peak and one of the most common cars on the road that a fire during an accident was not such a rare occurrence as it may be today bearing in mind the Police/Fire/Ambulance rescue services had little or very basic equipment to work with. The worst Mini petrol tank design must have been the early internal tank Mini Countryman/Traveller which had the petrol tank inside the load space covered with some cardboard trim, with no bulkhead to the passenger compartment! Your kids in the rear seat were next to it....

Also interesting to read in Robert Young's recent 'Works Minis' book that the battery was turned around to move the terminals away from the RH petrol tank for safety by Abingdon and yet this was not done on the production Mini Coopers that were factory fitted with RH tanks as far as I am aware?

mab01uk wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:58 pm

and.rs1800 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:38 pm How many classic minis have burst into flames in an accident due to the petrol tank exploding?
I’d suggest that the occupants of a mini have worse things to worry about in a huge impact.

I think you might find when the Mini was at its peak and one of the most common cars on the road that a fire during an accident was not such a rare occurrence as it may be today bearing in mind the Police/Fire/Ambulance rescue services had little or very basic equipment to work with. The worst Mini petrol tank design must have been the early internal tank Mini Countryman/Traveller which had the petrol tank inside the load space covered with some cardboard trim, with no bulkhead to the passenger compartment! Your kids in the rear seat were next to it....

Also interesting to read in Robert Young's recent 'Works Minis' book that the battery was turned around to move the terminals away from the RH petrol tank for safety by Abingdon and yet this was not done on the production Mini Coopers that were factory fitted with RH tanks as far as I am aware?

I am well aware of when the mini was at its peak-I was brought home from hospital in a mini after being born. chucked in the back of a minivan with my sister when we went on holiday,etc .
I still say getting crushed/thrown about was much more of a concern than a petrol fire.

It may become a today issue with the increasing reports of SUV,s that run into the back of an early Mini.. if you are that worried fireproof the rear bulkhead .. or maybe wire in a 3rd Brake Light in the hope these "Sorry i did not see you" Drivers can engage their Brain & Stop with out a collision.

Polarsilver wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:35 pm .. or maybe wire in a 3rd Brake Light in the hope these "Sorry i did not see you" Drivers can engage their Brain & Stop with out a collision.

An essential in my view, as a large percentage of today's drivers have only ever driven on roads and motorways where almost every car has a 3rd high level LED brake light while a classic Minis low down, small and rather dim brake lights are practically invisible to a modern SUV with the driver sitting at a higher level peering over a bulky crash resistant bonnet, especially when following a Mini closely in traffic.

"....By luck rather than design it does seem the Mini steering column moved up and away from the driver on impact in a safer way than most other cars of the time, which pushed the steering column straight into the drivers chest!.."

I think you'd be surprised by the level of safety designed and built into the Mini. The very feature you mention was spruiked in advertising in the 60s (in Oz anyway). They also noted that the front subframe/engine was designed to submarine under the body in a severe front on accident.

Its worth noting that during the first London Sydney Marathon, Lucien Bianchi's (rally toughened) DS Citroen was involved in a high speed head on collision with a private Cooper S. Lucien's navigator almost died due to his injuries while the S driver broke his thumb (passenger was shaken not stirred).

Back about the same time an acquaintance drove his 850 into a lamppost at immodest speed. While he still limps because the accelerator pedal almost cut his foot in two, the steering wheel moved away as advertised and the photos show the front edge of the gearbox peeking out from under where the passengers feet would have been. The lamp post ended up touching the base of the windscreen......

Unfortunately I have other experiences with smashed Minis.... but they've always looked after me.

Cheers, Ian

mab01uk wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:41 pmparcel shelf punched full of holes to make it less rigid to knees

IIRC the recent “Magical Mini Memories” booklet said the reason that was done is to make the bulkhead able to bulge rearward with the engine/box in a frontal impact. The ends of the parcel shelf rail were gas welded to the A pillar at the same change point, to meet European safety requirements. Basically increasing the crumple of the front end, ensuring the steering column would pivot fully around the rail, pushing the front windscreen outwards. ie directed energy dissipation

If you are the sort of person who worries about whether the car you are driving is going to be safe in the event of an accident, I would suggest that maybe ANY car older than about 15 years is not the car for you. Old cars are NOT safe in the event of an accident & usually, the older they are or the smaller the are, the worse they are. A MK1 Mini is both old & small, therefore if you get hit by some idiot in a SUV, you are going to come off worse.

Drive defensively, anticipate other road users & keep your fingers crossed. No point making mods as if you do have a big one, you will not come out of it well.

All that said, the chances are very slim & Minis are FUN There are much more pressing things to worry about than crashing in a Mini. Let's face it, a lot of people on here have done so at least once, I certainly have, & I'm still here to tell the tail.

Stirling Moss walked away from this, (been here aswell, got the T shirt ). The Mini shell is amazingly robust when driven into solid objects but best to avoid. And take your hands off the wheel before impact!

mab01uk wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:41 pm

wantafaster1 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:50 pm Judging a 1950s design by modern standards, why?

By luck rather than design it does seem the Mini steering column moved up and away from the driver on impact in a safer way than most other cars of the time, which pushed the steering column straight into the drivers chest!

I can speak from experience that when a mini steering wheel does hit your chest,with enough force to bend the spokes and rim,and bend the column its pretty painful....six broken ribs and sternum...huge bloody lung oysters and a hell of a lot of bruising for weeks afterwards...plus the Astrali wheel imprinted as a massive yellow/green/purple bruise ,complete with two larger bruises, where my hands had been on the wheel.
the car was shorter after impact by over a foot,the subframe had deformed the floor the roof was creased,doors would not open,and the screen pillars were vertical,the pedals ended up about 4" away from the seat mount cross member,i was lucky to have both feet because i lifted both up off the pedals all of this was a 55mph impact into another vehicles side.

Mick

What about the filler and tank on an imp.

I have owned my 67 Mk1 S since 79. I do not have any great history of the car other than the previous owner and from the heritage cert. However, during preservation work in the 80's it became apparent that it has survived a rear end shunt. I can only assume that this must have been at some relatively early stage and at the time the replacement Mk2 rear panel was then seen as an upgrade. I have kept the dent in the back of the right hand petrol tank to this day.
It was a different age then, I cannot remember that there was any undue risk and regular occassions used to transport my youngest son in a carry cot on the rear seat and my older boy, if not seated, stood between the front seats with his arms round mine and my wife's necks urging slower cars to get out of the way with "come on flug", He tried to repeat a polite term I used with the kids in the car but could not pronounce the "s" in slug.

I can still remember rattling around the back of mu Mum's OEW 850 in a similar fashion.

Those were the days

On family trips as a kid I used to race my younger brother (Steve) to get to the middle position first on the front bench seat of my dad's brand new 1965 Ford Zephyr Mk3 (no seat belts of course!) as if we were good my dad sometimes allowed us to help him change gear with the column change.