The Works Minis 1959 - 1970 (PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING)
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:47 pm
This is the introduction to the Works Mini's History thread originally placed on Graham W Robinson's minicooperforum.org forum. To a great extent his comments are as salient now as they were when they were originally posted. This section exists to record & detail the history of these cars & their number plates factually. Without comment on the rights or wrongs of what may or may not have happened to them over the years.
Not only do I hope it will become a valuable source of factual information, but that it will also be a lasting testament to Graham & his love for these funny little cars.
Please feel free to contribute any information or photo's that you can.
Thanks, Mark F
Now, over to Graham. . . . . . . .
An introduction by the late Graham W Robinson.
Welcome to the “Works Minis” section of the Forum.
Why has this section been set up?
It has been the experience elsewhere with other makes that some forums that excel in the recording of the intricate details of the production car are not always the best place to cover “works” competition history and can get a little too protective and exclusive over “identifying features” being made public and then being used to create “replicas”. Here we are seeking a more open approach to the subject. Forum members are encouraged to contribute whatever data they have that will add to the factual history. However insignificant a fact may appear to be, it might just prove to be a valuable piece of the jigsaw. Conjecture and circumstantial evidence is also welcome if well argued and linked to known facts. The intention is that the Section should not drift into the “I know something you don't” syndrome that has blighted many Historic forums on other makes/models.
Discussion on other Mini forums
Another excellent Mini forum already specialises in “Historic Motor Sport” and is a respected place to discuss that subject. Much valuable car history has been exchanged there but “Historic Motor Sport” is not “Motor Sport History” of the cars “in period”. The UK lacks even a successful general “Rally History” forum and history forums that do exist suffer from limited rally expertise, at the expense of racing history, or a generational block on much that is earlier than the 70s or 80s. (The French “Forum Auto – Histoires” is better, with two Mini competition history threads - and has two or three members who may not be unknown here! - but we need an English language forum).
‘But it's all in books already’ you may say?
It’s true that the subject is well-covered, compared to many models/makes, and we acknowledge that Peter Browning's “The Works Minis” and Bill Price's “The BMC/BL Competitions Department” have biblical status. However the fact that there are a few minor omissions/errors does not compromise these primary sources but we can correct them here. Graham Robson's “Mini Cooper” volume in his “Rally Giants” series is shorter but has the benefit of the passing years and a degree of hindsight. The late Brian Moylan's “Works Rally Mechanic” and “Anatomy of the Works Mini” covers data never published in a Mini “Build Book” for private competitors in period, unlike the ones for other makes/models. “BMC Competition Department Secrets” (Chambers/Turner/Browning), “The Paddy Hopkirk Story” (with Price), “Harnessing Horsepower - The Pat Moss Carlsson Story” (Turner) and “Twice Lucky”(Turner) are relevant too. “Works Wonders” (Chambers) covers the 850 period. The three volumes of “Memory Lanes” (Robinson) will provide much post-works competition history for some numbers/cars. We now even have “MGs The Mini and Me” (Pike) to show that a team that once included a vicar as a driver and a lay preacher as a mechanic actually has a fairly raunchy past!
Our aim
With the background already described above our aim is to record an accurate and informative history of the Works Minis. In setting it up we hope to provide a “one stop shop” for data on works Minis from the period of the BMC/BL Competitions Department rather than satellite teams, both during their use by the Department and after their disposal by the “works”. Although by definition this is the Mini Cooper Forum, it seems sensible to cover the 850s and the few 1275GTs built by “Comps”. However we are well aware that that is not an easy task. At times the very subject of the Works Minis throws up complications, untruths, arguments, denials and the like, so please tread carefully in what you say. Where fair debate slides into no more than a slanging match the post will either be edited or deleted by a member of the forum admin team. You have been warned!
Recording the history of every Works Mini
We seek to record the history of every Works Mini registration number, bringing up to date earlier work. As many know, that is not necessarily the same thing as the history of each works “car”. The rallies each number competed on may already be mostly in the public domain but the true story of whether, or when, a number was attached to a new car is not. We seek to identify when the number appeared on a recce car, a test car (to destruction or otherwise!) or even as a works runabout to go into Abingdon in the lunch hour.
The afterlife of the Works cars
The post/ex works life of many works cars is complicated by whether they were sold with the works registration number or without, as a “rolling shell” or as scrap. In some cases that afterlife was one of competition in private hands. Any data on these aspects is welcomed, as is information on “restoration” (with “during” photos if possible).
Template considerations
The very nature of the task means a completely standard template for each thread/number may not be possible initially. Perhaps in the more distant future, if sufficient data is forthcoming, it may be possible to re-align things into a standard format embracing “events in works hands”, “other uses in works hands”, “any post/ex-works life”, and any “restoration” work.
Making corrections
If you feel a posted fact is incorrect or conjecture is wide of the mark, please offer a correction or alternative scenario – but with respect and restraint. It is the hope that no one should feel hesitant about posting because they fear being “shot down in flames” by others. However where you have concern, but do not wish to post something publicly, please do not hesitate to send a PM (Private Message) or email to ‘worksminis’ who is our Assistant Administrator with special responsibilities for the Works Minis on the forum. The two of you can then decide how best to tackle the point you wish to make.
Graham Robinson
Not only do I hope it will become a valuable source of factual information, but that it will also be a lasting testament to Graham & his love for these funny little cars.
Please feel free to contribute any information or photo's that you can.
Thanks, Mark F
Now, over to Graham. . . . . . . .
An introduction by the late Graham W Robinson.
Welcome to the “Works Minis” section of the Forum.
Why has this section been set up?
It has been the experience elsewhere with other makes that some forums that excel in the recording of the intricate details of the production car are not always the best place to cover “works” competition history and can get a little too protective and exclusive over “identifying features” being made public and then being used to create “replicas”. Here we are seeking a more open approach to the subject. Forum members are encouraged to contribute whatever data they have that will add to the factual history. However insignificant a fact may appear to be, it might just prove to be a valuable piece of the jigsaw. Conjecture and circumstantial evidence is also welcome if well argued and linked to known facts. The intention is that the Section should not drift into the “I know something you don't” syndrome that has blighted many Historic forums on other makes/models.
Discussion on other Mini forums
Another excellent Mini forum already specialises in “Historic Motor Sport” and is a respected place to discuss that subject. Much valuable car history has been exchanged there but “Historic Motor Sport” is not “Motor Sport History” of the cars “in period”. The UK lacks even a successful general “Rally History” forum and history forums that do exist suffer from limited rally expertise, at the expense of racing history, or a generational block on much that is earlier than the 70s or 80s. (The French “Forum Auto – Histoires” is better, with two Mini competition history threads - and has two or three members who may not be unknown here! - but we need an English language forum).
‘But it's all in books already’ you may say?
It’s true that the subject is well-covered, compared to many models/makes, and we acknowledge that Peter Browning's “The Works Minis” and Bill Price's “The BMC/BL Competitions Department” have biblical status. However the fact that there are a few minor omissions/errors does not compromise these primary sources but we can correct them here. Graham Robson's “Mini Cooper” volume in his “Rally Giants” series is shorter but has the benefit of the passing years and a degree of hindsight. The late Brian Moylan's “Works Rally Mechanic” and “Anatomy of the Works Mini” covers data never published in a Mini “Build Book” for private competitors in period, unlike the ones for other makes/models. “BMC Competition Department Secrets” (Chambers/Turner/Browning), “The Paddy Hopkirk Story” (with Price), “Harnessing Horsepower - The Pat Moss Carlsson Story” (Turner) and “Twice Lucky”(Turner) are relevant too. “Works Wonders” (Chambers) covers the 850 period. The three volumes of “Memory Lanes” (Robinson) will provide much post-works competition history for some numbers/cars. We now even have “MGs The Mini and Me” (Pike) to show that a team that once included a vicar as a driver and a lay preacher as a mechanic actually has a fairly raunchy past!
Our aim
With the background already described above our aim is to record an accurate and informative history of the Works Minis. In setting it up we hope to provide a “one stop shop” for data on works Minis from the period of the BMC/BL Competitions Department rather than satellite teams, both during their use by the Department and after their disposal by the “works”. Although by definition this is the Mini Cooper Forum, it seems sensible to cover the 850s and the few 1275GTs built by “Comps”. However we are well aware that that is not an easy task. At times the very subject of the Works Minis throws up complications, untruths, arguments, denials and the like, so please tread carefully in what you say. Where fair debate slides into no more than a slanging match the post will either be edited or deleted by a member of the forum admin team. You have been warned!
Recording the history of every Works Mini
We seek to record the history of every Works Mini registration number, bringing up to date earlier work. As many know, that is not necessarily the same thing as the history of each works “car”. The rallies each number competed on may already be mostly in the public domain but the true story of whether, or when, a number was attached to a new car is not. We seek to identify when the number appeared on a recce car, a test car (to destruction or otherwise!) or even as a works runabout to go into Abingdon in the lunch hour.
The afterlife of the Works cars
The post/ex works life of many works cars is complicated by whether they were sold with the works registration number or without, as a “rolling shell” or as scrap. In some cases that afterlife was one of competition in private hands. Any data on these aspects is welcomed, as is information on “restoration” (with “during” photos if possible).
Template considerations
The very nature of the task means a completely standard template for each thread/number may not be possible initially. Perhaps in the more distant future, if sufficient data is forthcoming, it may be possible to re-align things into a standard format embracing “events in works hands”, “other uses in works hands”, “any post/ex-works life”, and any “restoration” work.
Making corrections
If you feel a posted fact is incorrect or conjecture is wide of the mark, please offer a correction or alternative scenario – but with respect and restraint. It is the hope that no one should feel hesitant about posting because they fear being “shot down in flames” by others. However where you have concern, but do not wish to post something publicly, please do not hesitate to send a PM (Private Message) or email to ‘worksminis’ who is our Assistant Administrator with special responsibilities for the Works Minis on the forum. The two of you can then decide how best to tackle the point you wish to make.
Graham Robinson