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Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:04 pm
by roymck
When I bought my 63 Mini it had fitted new cones with new Hi lo,s and new KYABA self adjust gas dampers .
Always looked a bit high at the back and can easily get 4 fingers between top of tyres and arch so tried to drop the rear suspension by winding in Hi lo,s , but I doesn’t appear to get lower .
Is it the shockers being gas assist are holding the car up , and what are KYABA self adjust shock absorbers , what self adjusts ?
I know I will need lower rear shocks as at the moment with the wheel on full droop the cones and Hi lo,s rattle about .
Any thoughts , is there a incompatibility ?
Thanks Roy
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:26 pm
by jayare
Unless the dampers are fully compressed, it probably just needs to settle and get everything fully seated - a little drive should do it or alternatively bouncing the back of the car. Both would show up if the dampers were bottomed out as it will knock badly if they are.
JR
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:52 pm
by Dean
is the threaded bolt inside the hi-lo bottoming out not the top of the cone,
i have to cut some of the end on mine so it could go lower with out causing problems.
Dean
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:23 pm
by surfblue63
roymck wrote: what self adjusts ?
Thanks Roy
From the manufacturers web site
https://www.kyb.com/products/gas-a-just/
The KYB Gas-a-just monotube shock absorber has additional performance advantages over the traditional twin-tube design: It can instantly, automatically adjust to your performance needs and never experiences fade due to aeration. The Gas-a-just is available as an OE monotube replacement for vehicles that came equipped with a monotube shock, and as a performance upgrade on vehicles that came equipped from the factory with twin-tube shocks. The KYB Gas-a-just has two separate working chambers: An air-free hydraulic piston and valve area for responsiveness and control, and a second high-pressure nitrogen gas area with a floating piston that provides a comfortable ride during normal driving and adds instant performance on demand.
The high pressure monotube design responds instantly to conditions and driver inputs to deliver increased handling capabilities over twin-tube designs
Monotube shocks have separate chambers for the nitrogen gas and hydraulic fluid, this eliminates aeration and foaming and helps maintain consistent damping force in all conditions.
Fluid leaking can be a cause of shock failure, the KYB Gas-a-Just has an ultra-smooth triple chrome plated chrome piston rod to reduce seal wear. The multi-lip, synthetic oil seal is engineered to keep fluid in and has a wiper to keep contaminates out of the oil.
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:12 am
by timmy201
If the hi-lo is loose there is a possibility that it isn’t seating properly on the cone and causing it to sit a bit high
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:48 am
by roymck
Thanks to all that answered . Comments on some of the answers .
I suppose an easy test would be to remove the shockers and drop the car back down to the ground and see if ride height changes . The ride is good and no evidence that the shockers are seized or bottoming out .
I assume lowered shock absorbers do 2 things? , stop the shockers bottoming out and preventing the suspension droop when jacking the car up .
As it stands at the moment if I lower it anymore then there is a danger of the cones dislocating as the suspension drops , I have gone down as far as I can to assure that they don’t unseat but the rear end is up in the air.
Isn’t there a ratio that if you take X away from trumpet the car lowers by 5X ? Different ratios front and back . Can’t remember what that was ?
As it stands at the moment the rear Mini spares Hi lo,s only about 1/2 inch of thread is left on the rear to drop the car anymore , any shorter and it will dislocate .
It was never this difficult when years ago before Hi lo,s I just used to take a hacksaw to the cones !
Any more thoughts ?
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:27 pm
by Dean
a handy tip, many years ago Rich posted on here that really helps is
get a cooper s oil relief spring , cut it in half and put it inside the hi-lo hole where the shaft fits, reassemble and check the shaft still seats back on the hi-lo when spring is compressed
but when the car jacked up and the arm droops, the spring un compresses and pushed the shaft and hi-lo away and keeps them seating where they should be and stops them just falling out.
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:08 pm
by Spider
roymck wrote:
Isn’t there a ratio that if you take X away from trumpet the car lowers by 5X ? Different ratios front and back . Can’t remember what that was ?
Rears are 5:1 and Fronts are 4.5:1
Check what you have but I've found these days most Hilos use an M20 bolt. If that's what yours have then 1 full turn (6 'flats') is 12.5 mm in height on the Rears and 11.25 mm of the Fronts.
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:30 pm
by roymck
Thanks to Dean problem solved . Firstly the shocks are gas filled and the take a lot of effort to compress and when you Jack to car up they will push the suspension down to full droop . You could consider that they increase the spring rate due to the stiffness and the way that they always try to fully extend .
So back to the problem I couldn’t get the car lowered enough at the rear as on full droop the cones and hi lo,s were in danger of dislocating , Dean came up with a suggestion and it works . Using a oil pressure relief spring I cut it in half . Inserted into the Hi lo it stopped the shaft from seating on the shoulder of the adjuster , so ground off 15mm from the inserted end of the shaft it’s plenty long enough . So the shaft shoulder now rests on the adjuster as designed but when the car is jacked up and the suspension drops the added spring pushes the shaft out and takes up the slack in Hi lo and keeps everything snug and in place . Perfection !
Problem solved.
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:49 pm
by Dean
well thats great you understood what i was getting to, writing instructions is not my forte.
but a nice simple mod that works well.
just passing on an idea that i learnt from someone else,
Thanks Dean
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:31 pm
by Vegard
Spider wrote:roymck wrote:
Isn’t there a ratio that if you take X away from trumpet the car lowers by 5X ? Different ratios front and back . Can’t remember what that was ?
Rears are 5:1 and Fronts are 4.5:1
Check what you have but I've found these days most Hilos use an M20 bolt. If that's what yours have then 1 full turn (6 'flats') is 12.5 mm in height on the Rears and 11.25 mm of the Fronts.
Fronts are 3:1
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:59 pm
by Spider
Vegard wrote:Spider wrote:roymck wrote:
Isn’t there a ratio that if you take X away from trumpet the car lowers by 5X ? Different ratios front and back . Can’t remember what that was ?
Rears are 5:1 and Fronts are 4.5:1
Check what you have but I've found these days most Hilos use an M20 bolt. If that's what yours have then 1 full turn (6 'flats') is 12.5 mm in height on the Rears and 11.25 mm of the Fronts.
Fronts are 3:1
Hey Veg, have you measured them or are you just working off the same error that Clive Tricky published in the 60's and everyone since has blindly quoted ?
Re: Problems lowering the suspension
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:18 am
by Spider
Spider wrote:Vegard wrote:Spider wrote:
Rears are 5:1 and Fronts are 4.5:1
Check what you have but I've found these days most Hilos use an M20 bolt. If that's what yours have then 1 full turn (6 'flats') is 12.5 mm in height on the Rears and 11.25 mm of the Fronts.
Fronts are 3:1
Hey Veg, have you measured them or are you just working off the same error that Clive Tricky published in the 60's and everyone since has blindly quoted ?
I was just going through some photos and found this one. Does this look like it's 3:1?
