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HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:30 pm
by Yorkie 'S'
The Historic Racing Drivers Club is to launch a race series for early Gp.2 historic touring cars of the type that formed the nucleus of the ETCC in 1963.
HRDC Founder and Race Director, Julius Thurgood, comments:
"For many years, I have rued the fact we no longer see the eclectic mix of historic touring cars that created the variety and spectacle which hallmarked the ETCC in its formative years. It is clear that certain models have now become ‘the weapon of choice’ in pre-’66 historic touring car races – so much so that hardly any true-to-period variety is to be seen in this arena. Nowadays, where can you see a proper Jaguar Mk.2 running competitively, or for that matter, a Lancia Flavia or Flaminia coupe, Alfa Romeo 2600 or an early Giulia Ti, Vauxhall VX4/90, Mercedes-Benz 300SE, MG 1100, Mini 850, Ford Zodiac Mk.3 or even an early model Ford Cortina GT? I know that many of these cars exist in historic race form – but most have been mothballed by disheartened owners, who have given up any hope of competing on a level playing field against over-developed homologation specials. I truly feel that there is a strong demand for these early, less developed, cars to make a dynamic return to historic racing within a well managed Series."
1963 saw the formation of the FIA-sanctioned ETCC, the brainchild of German Willy Stenger, who enlisted the help of John Aley to coordinate the U.K rounds.
One particular race that has inspired Julius Thurgood to launch the new series is the ‘The Motor’ 6-Hours race at Brands Hatch, held on 6th July 1963.
"Here we had the sight of the then mighty Jaguar Mk.2s of Mike Salmon and Peter Sutcliffe, Roy Salvadori and Denny Hulme, Peter Linder and Peter Nocker battling against Jack Sears and Bo Ljungfeldt in the Willment Cortina GT while the mighty Galaxies had yet to find their potential. John Aley and Rauno Aaltonen were in a Mini Cooper (not an ‘S’), as was Edward Lewis and Julien Vernaeve in the Westover Racing version. Bill Blydenstein fielded a Vauxhall VX4/90, Dick Jacobs was in a MG 1100, Anita Taylor hustled the Willment Ford Anglia 1200 while the HF Squadra Corse team fielded both Lancia Flavia and Flaminia coupes. Add a sprinkling of Sunbeam Rapiers, Volvo Amazons, a brace of Zodiac Mk.3s, a Fiat Abarth, Riley 1.5 and a Mercedes-Benz 220SE and you can see the colourful palate that made up this evocative grid – with not a single Lotus-powered homologation special in view!"
Therefore the HRDC will be running a dedicated Series for FIA-compliant historic touring cars that ran in 1963 with the exclusion of ‘Homologation Specials’. This Series will run alongside the already established HRDC ‘Touring Greats’ for pre-’60 touring cars and ‘Grand Touring Greats’ for sub-1500cc, pre-’66 GTs’. The new Series will be called HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’.
Owners of eligible ‘TC63’ cars who are interested in competing with the HRDC in such a Series are invited to contact Julius Thurgood:
Is the statement about the John Aley and Rauno Aaltonen Mini Correct - looking at the following reference it would appear not to be ? Surf ????
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/R ... Hatch.html
It would appear however any 970 'S' or 1071 'S' would not be allowed to run - "A dedicated Series for FIA-compliant historic touring cars that ran in 1963 with the exclusion of ‘Homologation Specials’ "
Looks like they are gunning to put a Grid together for the last race of the year, so any 850 or 997 Cooper's out there ??? What minimum weight could they run at, do they have homologation papers - maybe I should ask the old man
http://www.hrdc.eu/calendar.html
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:52 am
by uncle bernie
I was there, on that day with the Alexander Engineering mini cooper driven by Timo Mackinen and Elizabeth Jones reg 572 BCR, now owned by Simon (I think!!!)
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:55 pm
by sandman
The 970 didnt run in '63 so thats out the door anyway... how on earth they can say that the 1071 is a 2homologation special" is far beyond me... The 1071 was made in numbers and was at the time of homologation, nothing but a yet new model for the manufacturer...
Now, the 970 on the other hand is somehint I could consider a "special", made exclusively to clinch the ETCC 1 litre class (the largest class and easiest to win at the time - point were given based on no. of competitors is your class) - and they didnt even manufacture all 1000 units needed for a homologation... (wonder what will happen if some FIA rep. finds that out?!!) But like i said before, the 970 want even around in '63 so thats no issue...
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:22 pm
by Yorkie 'S'
Of course the 970 'S' wasn't produced till 1964 - DOUGH !!!
The article must be incorrect for the Rauno Altonen #32 Car - Should probably be 997 ???
I've just noticed my Driving Instructor was in Car #26 !!!!
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:08 am
by SMOKE GREY
997cc Cooper's, and 848 Minis though they were outclassed in Group 2 by 63 by the Saabs.
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 5:58 pm
by Simon776
It's all a bit confusing about what car Aaltonen was in for this event.
In the entry list Rauno isn't mentioned but John Aley was listed as being in a Cooper Car Co 1071 S with the other driver TBA. On the ETCC website it indicates the car as a 999! However, contemporary reports show Aley/Aaltonen won the 851 - 1000cc class in an Austin Mini Cooper having completed 154 laps compared to 159 for Whitmore/Hopkirk and 158 laps for Rhodes/Slotemaker so it seems pretty certain Aaltonen was in a 997. Jones/Makinen were 2nd in the same class in 572 BCR a lap behind.
Other cars were not allowed to start or were later disqualified thanks to scrutineering difficulties and I'd have thought a 999 engine would have been spotted on a class winner.
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 7:31 pm
by Pete
Simon776 wrote: Aley/Aaltonen won the 851 - 1000cc class in an Austin Mini Cooper.
Just shows how hit and miss information was back then as it looks like a Morris to me.....
Yes 997 it was (alledgedly) and looks to have been in a skirmish or two from the photo.
Not sure just how much interest a new series for none 'S's will garner but without the highly developed Imps to beat I can see a definate opening for small bore Minis.
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:20 am
by Pete
Apparently there's a couple of people building 997 Coopers for this series , anyone on here ?
http://www.hrdc.eu/historic_touring_cars.html
Mk1 850's and Elf/Hornets would also be eligible.
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:42 am
by SMOKE GREY
Motor magazine 'tested' all the class winners after the race, 997cc 78bhp s/s 1/4 mile 17.8 SEC 0-90MPH 27SECS or thereabouts from memory, will have to dig out the magazine.
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:12 pm
by RTJ
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:01 pm
by RTJ
Uploaded with
ImageShack.us
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:25 pm
by Tim Harber
Can't seem to be able to watch either of your Movietone clips. Is it just me? I was keen to see the Vita bit as your site has got me quite keen despite me being a Southerner
One of our customers has been building a 997 up to race but has now faltered as he has noticed that you can't even run an LSD or straight cut gears and I think 3.5 inch wide wheels as it's more like Apppendix J (not that I know what the details are - even more standard than Appendix K , I guess).
With such limited power and grip he's concerned that he's likely to be driving round at the back really slowly and not getting a proper race
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:16 pm
by RTJ
Tim, I think you may have to register to view them.
Paul.
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:26 am
by YMJ
Yes, I was............but now I'm not.
1. Running 5.00x10 CR65s on 3.5" wheels will necessitate such high pressures to keep them on the rims, that it will destroy your front tyres before the end of a 30 minute race. Not even 3.5" 'S' rims are allowed. Minis will finish last.
2. Not being able to run straight cut gears, i.e standard helical stuff will be a tad unreliable to say the least and
will result in spectacular engine/unit failures.
It's a shame because I was really looking forward to racing in a friendly series run by a super bloke, without the no-expense-spared-moneybags App K competition but I just cannot see the attractiveness of not being "in the hunt".
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:48 pm
by YMJ
.....and also, the brakes?
No 'S' brakes allowed I imagine, so it's down to a choice between twin-leading shoes....Er, no thanks!
And 7" Cooper discs - from where?
Unfortunately, Julius has been a bit vague as to what we can and cannot do with the TC63 997 Mini Cooper so until I sit down with him and actually hammer it out, I'm not going to invest in a new unit.
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:12 pm
by SMOKE GREY
YMJ wrote:.....and also, the brakes?
No 'S' brakes allowed I imagine, so it's down to a choice between twin-leading shoes....Er, no thanks!
And 7" Cooper discs - from where?
Unfortunately, Julius has been a bit vague as to what we can and cannot do with the TC63 997 Mini Cooper so until I sit down with him and actually hammer it out, I'm not going to invest in a new unit.
7 inch discs are available, as are carbon metallic pads to fit the calipers ( same as on the rear of many historic Formula Fords). I have used tis setup as has Gerry Braithwaite on the monte, worked brilliantly even with cherry red discs!!!
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:22 am
by YMJ
SMOKE GREY wrote:YMJ wrote:.....and also, the brakes?
No 'S' brakes allowed I imagine, so it's down to a choice between twin-leading shoes....Er, no thanks!
And 7" Cooper discs - from where?
Unfortunately, Julius has been a bit vague as to what we can and cannot do with the TC63 997 Mini Cooper so until I sit down with him and actually hammer it out, I'm not going to invest in a new unit.
7 inch discs are available, as are carbon metallic pads to fit the calipers ( same as on the rear of many historic Formula Fords). I have used tis setup as has Gerry Braithwaite on the monte, worked brilliantly even with cherry red discs!!!
Well that's great! First question is
where do we get the discs from and.....has anyone got a spare pair of calipers?
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:11 pm
by SMOKE GREY
YMJ wrote:SMOKE GREY wrote:YMJ wrote:.....and also, the brakes?
No 'S' brakes allowed I imagine, so it's down to a choice between twin-leading shoes....Er, no thanks!
And 7" Cooper discs - from where?
Unfortunately, Julius has been a bit vague as to what we can and cannot do with the TC63 997 Mini Cooper so until I sit down with him and actually hammer it out, I'm not going to invest in a new unit.
7 inch discs are available, as are carbon metallic pads to fit the calipers ( same as on the rear of many historic Formula Fords). I have used tis setup as has Gerry Braithwaite on the monte, worked brilliantly even with cherry red discs!!!
Well that's great! First question is
where do we get the discs from and.....has anyone got a spare pair of calipers?
Minisport and minispares supply good quality 7 inch discs. i used some new old stock calipers. Nick at sheffeild a good bet for some calipers
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:18 pm
by SMOKE GREY
Re: HRDC ‘TC63 Touring Greats’
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:28 pm
by SMOKE GREY
I have an in-depth article on group 2 cooper prepping from late 62 from a very rare magazine, wiil attempt to scan it an post it up in the next couple of days.
