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Wondering if anyone has a rally report or photo of TJB199 on the knowldale car club event, quoted as the Mini's first rally win It was ladies first with Pat who was never really keen on the Mini and Turner on the maps who of course went on to lead the BMC cars on to greater things and the fact that the car, a very, very early one was a very non-standard works Mini colour, black

That's the same I found. Nothing of a report yet found. Even tryed to make contact with the organising club.

Hi Steve,

Not got any photo's of it but if it helps we hold this information.

TJB 199 was Morris Mini Minor, chassis number 675, Cherry Red, De-Luxe, built 17-08-59 RHD domestic market, dispatched to BMC competitions Dept on 24.08.59. Sold second hand 26.01.61 to Mr A.Hutchinson.

Bill

bill773mini wrote:Hi Steve,

Not got any photo's of it but if it helps we hold this information.

TJB 199 was Morris Mini Minor, chassis number 675, Cherry Red, De-Luxe, built 17-08-59 RHD domestic market, dispatched to BMC competitions Dept on 24.08.59. Sold second hand 26.01.61 to Mr A.Hutchinson.

Bill

Cheers Bill. Interesting about the colour cherry red as Sprinzel say's the car was black in his book 'Spritely years'

Well, Turner's biography of Pat Moss is due for publication this month, so that may mention it.

"Sold to Mr. A. Hutchinson". Alan Hutchinson the Riley 1.5 racer?

Hi all ! Ive just joined & posted a similar question about this car, to the minis in competition board. regarding early works morris mini minor TJB 199 that was allocated to the bmc competitions dept. !
I have turners Book & also Pats Book too, the car was listed as red with a white roof from what ive discovered so far, the race number was POSSIBLY 29.... but as for a photo of the car with pat or without her even, ive so far had no joy. you guys are the ones to ask I reckon? so does anyone have any information please? the internet throws up everything I KNOW, but doesn't confirm the rally number or the colours when rallied, but other sources have said red/white & #29....that's the livery my restored Dinky tribute model is now wearing anyway! cheers bernb

I did have a discussion about it with Turner last year. All I remember him saying was how neither of them thought the car would be any good as a rally car without more power and finding some way of stopping it filling up with water. I've never seen a photo of it either on that event.

The works didn't paint a white roof on a red Mini til '62 did they? It was monotone on the '61 RAC.

Pete wrote:The works didn't paint a white roof on a red Mini til '62 did they? It was monotone on the '61 RAC.

hi Pete! well theres a pic on the net when the car was on the 1960 tulip rally, a few months later, driven by sprinzel, & it appears to be white (B&W photo) & also I saw in writing somewhere that it had a white roof, may have been a quote from the bmc works mini site, it stuck in my mind as they said: 'unusually painted the roof white', also on 1 or 2 other cars that were there at the time too, but I cant recall exactly where. but I made notes as to its details as I searched. same with the race no 29, saw it somewhere, but its not listed at any rally sites etc. wasn't in pats or Stuarts books either, she usually put in the reg no & rally no & often the colour & a nickname if it was going to be a 'regular' too, but not for this one, she wasn't over impressed, even thought they won the rally by a full 10 minutes! her tune changed with the Coopers though didn't it!
ps as pat was an up & coming driver it could be that her healeys were mostly red with white roofs, a couple with black roofs but mostly were white I think,. bernb

Bernb if you look again at your photo of Sprinzel in TJB 199 on the '60 Tulip, the car is monotone, it'll be a light reflection thing on the roof skin!

TJB didn't do the '61 RAC did it? I was mixing it up with YOP 663. However when I spoke to Sprinzel about TJB on the '60 Tulip he refered to it as a Cooper prototype!

bernb wrote:

Pete wrote:The works didn't paint a white roof on a red Mini til '62 did they? It was monotone on the '61 RAC.

hi Pete! well theres a pic on the net when the car was on the 1960 tulip rally, a few months later, driven by sprinzel, & it appears to be white (B&W photo) & also I saw in writing somewhere that it had a white roof, may have been a quote from the bmc works mini site, it stuck in my mind as they said: 'unusually painted the roof white', also on 1 or 2 other cars that were there at the time too, but I cant recall exactly where. but I made notes as to its details as I searched. same with the race no 29, saw it somewhere, but its not listed at any rally sites etc. wasn't in pats or Stuarts books either, she usually put in the reg no & rally no & often the colour & a nickname if it was going to be a 'regular' too, but not for this one, she wasn't over impressed, even thought they won the rally by a full 10 minutes! her tune changed with the Coopers though didn't it!
ps as pat was an up & coming driver it could be that her healeys were mostly red with white roofs, a couple with black roofs but mostly were white I think,. bernb

just found that Nancy Mitchell drove the car in the '59 Portugese rally, with the race no.57, just a few months after Pat drove this & a period colour photo shows it clearly with a red roof * #57 for that event for sure. but I have lots of other bmc models, that when ive researched them were painted various colours thru their competition lives, as & when required by the bmc comp.dept for whatever reasons.....phew its a thick plot with no photos . bernb

hi pete yes I make you right re : reflection in that photo of sprinzel in TJB at the Tulip rally, theres another shot of it elsewhere & its clearly not white it seems likely monotone when sprinzel drove it, as it was when nancy Mitchell drove it. I made a note that I found when trawling the web quite a while ago, of it being prepped 'unusually with a white roof, as were 1 or 2 others too' but exactly where I cant recall,possibly pages from a book displayed online, but Ive searched so many times & you get sidetracked from place to place so much, just wrote it down red/white roof. I think I saw it confirmed somewhere else too, which made me paint the roof white! a photo from the mini miglia rally of '59 will prove whats correct for when SHE drove it.................. someone must have one......famous last words eh?? ha haaa thanks for your input mate, I'm sure we'll find one in the end,

bernb wrote:

bernb wrote:

Pete wrote:The works didn't paint a white roof on a red Mini til '62 did they? It was monotone on the '61 RAC.

hi Pete! well theres a pic on the net when the car was on the 1960 tulip rally, a few months later, driven by sprinzel, & it appears to be white (B&W photo) & also I saw in writing somewhere that it had a white roof, may have been a quote from the bmc works mini site, it stuck in my mind as they said: 'unusually painted the roof white', also on 1 or 2 other cars that were there at the time too, but I cant recall exactly where. but I made notes as to its details as I searched. same with the race no 29, saw it somewhere, but its not listed at any rally sites etc. wasn't in pats or Stuarts books either, she usually put in the reg no & rally no & often the colour & a nickname if it was going to be a 'regular' too, but not for this one, she wasn't over impressed, even thought they won the rally by a full 10 minutes! her tune changed with the Coopers though didn't it!
ps as pat was an up & coming driver it could be that her healeys were mostly red with white roofs, a couple with black roofs but mostly were white I think,. bernb

just found that Nancy Mitchell drove the car in the '59 Portugese rally, with the race no.57, just a few months after Pat drove this & a period colour photo shows it clearly with a red roof * #57 for that event for sure. but I have lots of other bmc models, that when ive researched them were painted various colours thru their competition lives, as & when required by the bmc comp.dept for whatever reasons.....phew its a thick plot with no photos . bernb

Can you share that period colour photo bernb?

here are the details of the photograph showing TJB 199 in the 1959 Portugese Rally driven by Nancy Mitchell with Rally No.:57
clearly showing at that time (1st December 1959) that it was monotone cherry red!
they are from Marcus Chambers photo collection, at the revs institute Stanford university
here are the details
https://purl.stanford.edu/yp521dd2822

identifier:2011-023Cham_5.0_0007

so it looks like I shall be re-painting its roof red.........but maybe not just yet..............if you can contact Stuart Turner as he was co-driver with pat moss in TJB 199,in the '59 mini miglia rally, he may even have some more pics with himself and or Pat in the car?? please let me know if you do speak to him as Ive seen info a couple of times somehwre on the net, that I didn't save, that said it was with a white roof, but now 2 photos back it up as monotone roof (cherry red) in 2 separate events,AFTER the mini miglia Rally though! but no pics of it, actually competing in the '59 mini miglia rally that Pat/Stuart competed & won in, so I am still wanting pics of the car from that event from anyone who can help. all the best bernb******************PS Ive just searched & discovered that sadly Marcus Chambers died in 2009, but he has a surviving relative Tom Chambers, possibly his son, who has access to the photos collection, he may be able to help further****

Can't see the photo, says log in unsuccessful??

All the 59 rally cars were monotone

Are you building a replica?

No clue if the date of the picture is correct,
but almost for sure it was not taken in Portugal, but Spain.
I'm not familiar with red shade fuel pumps in Portugal, and "PLOMO" is spanish word for lead .

Cheers
Luis

Got to the image now.

100% Cherry Red. Must have been enroute to the Rally or on their way back I guess?

bill773mini wrote:Got to the image now.

100% Cherry Red. Must have been enroute to the Rally or on their way back I guess?

Your correct Bill, cars were driven through Spain to the event.

bill773mini wrote:Can't see the photo, says log in unsuccessful??

All the 59 rally cars were monotone

Are you building a replica?

yes......BUT.......only a replica diecast model replica using an old corgi morris mini minor

LuisM wrote:No clue if the date of the picture is correct,
but almost for sure it was not taken in Portugal, but Spain.
I'm not familiar with red shade fuel pumps in Portugal, and "PLOMO" is spanish word for lead .

Cheers
Luis

photo was taken by the manager of bmc competitions dept, from his own private collection !!!!!