mk1-forum.net

Hi Guys,

Looking to make my little deluxe a bit more useable and part of my plans is for a different engine and box. I would ideally like to keep the magic wand gearstick as I want to keep the car looking period internally etc.

Please could someone shed some light on how I do this or let me know if there is a kit/ someone has a kit available to buy?


Thanks,

Lewis

you can buy a 1128 that's all ready got the magic wand on the back, so no issues with miss-matched cases.

mk2 850's had them, they have been mentioned on here of them before, if you search

Excuse my ignorance,

That would be a 22g1128 wouldn't it?

Luigi64 wrote:Excuse my ignorance,

That would be a 22g1128 wouldn't it?

yep, 4 sync magic wand

they never altered the case number, which is a bit odd, it would have been better had they given it its own cast number on the front!

Remember the 4 synch magic wand gearlever is different, ie. has the keyway slot in the ball at the top not side.





Photo shows parts needed to run the magic wand set up with the remote diff casing.
eg. when a Mk2/3 Four synchro box is used on a mk1

2A3467 Bush
2A3390 Spring
22A1832 Seat / Locating foot
88G553 Selector shaft
22A1717 Cover
22A1382 Gearlever 1968-75 (Later type wand with slot at the top of ball)

3 synchro type (both have slot at the side)
22A91 GEAR LEVER, straight 1959-61.
88G232 GEAR LEVER, cranked 1961-68

Diagram:
http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/in ... age&id=151

Adaptor plate:

mab01uk wrote:Remember the 4 synch magic wand gearlever is different, ie. has the keyway slot in the ball at the top not side.



Photo shows parts needed to run the magic wand set up with the remote diff casing.
eg. when a Mk2/3 Four synchro box is used on a mk1

2A3467 Bush
2A3390 Spring
22A1832 Seat / Locating foot
88G553 Selector shaft
22A1717 Cover
22A1382 Gearlever 1968-75 (Later type wand with slot at the top of ball)

3 synchro type (both have slot at the side)
22A91 GEAR LEVER, straight 1959-61.
88G232 GEAR LEVER, cranked 1961-68

Diagram:
http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/in ... age&id=151

Adaptor plate:

that's the 1970-72 van conversion that allows a magic wand stick to be used on a 1128 with a REMOTE back - i.e a remote could be used if you wish


the gearbox been discussed further above is the 1128 that has a MAGIC WAND back fitted at the factory - that looks like a std 'pure' magic wand box all be that its a four sync inside


there are two different gearboxes - this confusion always comes up when the 850 box is mentioned on here!!!!

the big advantage with the '1128 magic wand' is that it looks factory standard when fitted so nobody need know that you have got rid of the nasty 3 sync box

Rich is the quote from Somerfords below wrong, were Mk2 850 4-syncro Mini's still fitted with the unique wand diff housing until Mk3's maybe?

"From late 1968 when the gearbox went over from 3 to 4 synchromesh, they shared the same differential housing too - prior to that, the direct gearchange had its own unique diff housing with a small gearchange tower on it."
http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/in ... age&id=151

I can remember seeing the remote style diff housing on Mk3 Mini saloons with the (direct) magic wand as well as Minivan's. Why would BMC/BL have offered two different magic wand diff housings on the 4-syncro box at the same time.....surely the whole point of the later conversion plate was to cost reduce the gearboxes to share more 'common' parts in production?

Not that common sense was the norm at BL at the time....it is on record that the Mini 850 was being sold cheaper than the 1000cc even though for 2 or 3 years it had cost more to manufacture its engine because the volume point meant having them specifically engineered. Customers who bought the cars expected smaller to be cheaper but it wasn't the case............

mab01uk wrote:Rich is the quote from Somerfords below wrong, were Mk2 850 4-syncro Mini's still fitted with the unique wand diff housing until Mk3's maybe?

"From late 1968 when the gearbox went over from 3 to 4 synchromesh, they shared the same differential housing too - prior to that, the direct gearchange had its own unique diff housing with a small gearchange tower on it."
http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/in ... age&id=151

Just read that a few times to see what you were getting at there mab01uk, I suspect you missed the word prior from the Somerfords listing. What there are (rightly) saying is that the 3 Synchro Gearboxes had different diff caps caps depending upon if it were direct or remote, where as the 4 syncro all had the same diff cap, irresepctive.

As far as I know, there was only the one 4 syncho magic wand set up, I have a few in the workshop. We had them fitted here in to the Van and Mokes as well as I think it was some special order cars eg Post Master General Cars.

There aren't too many still fitted to any of the cars out here though as many wouldn't put up with the feel of them. We also found because of the angle of the gearstick there was always pressure on either 2nd or more usually 4th selector fork, causing these to wear quicker than simiar cars with remotes.

Thanks Spider..........just to clarify as I'm still slightly confused by the earlier posts.

Are all (Mk2 Mini onwards) 4 syncro gearboxes with a magic wand gearlever (van or saloon) fitted with the remote style rear diff housing and a conversion plate?

Is there a 4 syncro box (from the factory) with the older style magic wand rear diff housing fitted? If so why was it continued in production?
ie. 2 different 4-syncro gearboxes for same wand style gearlever?

mab01uk wrote: Are all (Mk2 Mini onwards) 4 syncro gearboxes with a magic wand gearlever (van or saloon) fitted with the remote style rear diff housing and a conversion plate?

As far as I know, yes. Since my post, I've also checked acroos many parts books and yesrs. Rather than thinking of it as a remote Diff Cap, think of them as a 'Universal Diff Cap'

mab01uk wrote: Is there a 4 syncro box (from the factory) with the older style magic wand rear diff housing fitted? If so why was it continued in production?
ie. 2 different 4-syncro gearboxes for same wand style gearlever?

Not that I'm aware of or have been able to find. There was only the 22G1128 and the 22G846, I think the only difference between these was the machined dia for the Idler Gear Bearing, but not 100% sure on that, very certain that it wasn't to do with the diff cap or shifter set up.

Also, as I thought earlier but couldn't lay my hands on the info for certain, the eariler 1100 Mokes with this gearbox / shifter set up did have a different gearstick, P/N AYK3099 (and that's a unique Aust Part No.).

100% there is a 4 sync box made by the factory with the proper magic wand back on it

andy b bought one for his cox


the gearbox that uses the remote back and the 'kit' of conversion parts was ONLY (unless it was also used on some mk3's, but ive never seen one that had it factory fitted) used on the van and pickup and only after 1970 until the introduction of the rod change box - I guess this was done as a money saver as it meant that the alloy remote etc didn't have to be costed into the price of a commercial vehicle.

I don't know why they didn't just use the gearbox with the magic wand back though, maybe it meant that the production line only had to produce the 'normal' remote backed box and it could then be fitted into either cars with remotes or commercials with the kit of bits

rich@minispares.com wrote:100% there is a 4 sync box made by the factory with the proper magic wand back on it

Well, there you go.

Love to see a pic if one can be organised.

Spider wrote:
Love to see a pic if one can be organised.

paging andy b!!!

I've got one of those kit of parts 4 synchro boxes that came out of a 72 850 saloon. Not sure if the gearbox was original to the car though due to the lack of paperwork etc.
It was around 1972 when Mini production was at it's highest so BL presumably fitted whatever was handy.

Interesting......this has always seemed to be a bit of an unknown mystery to me even in the Mini 'anorak' circles where many don't even know this alternative setup even existed. I can see why the remote housing with wand makes sense in production terms as a cost reduction with more common parts (though late in the day) but would be interested to know when, why and on what models for sure.

When the 4-syncro box appeared on the Mk2 850 Mini saloon and commercials with magic wand what style gearbox did they both have?

As said when I used to clamber round breakers yards in the 1970's I saw Mk3 Mini 850 saloons with the remote type wand conversion gearboxes and I would guess not all were due to van engine/box swaps.

The Morris Mini K van here in Australia had a 4 syncro box with the remote housing and plate/pivot/peace pipe & long stick. And as Sipder said, the std "Morris Mini Minors" that were used as fleet cars here had them as well. And some Mokes, but no one cares about them

If you want the 850 type change, just fit a 850 diff housing onto your remote box, I know everyone says that they never line up properly but it is usually only a bees dick out and if you have more than one housing available you can usually find one that fits properly.

850man wrote: If you want the 850 type change, just fit a 850 diff housing onto your remote box, I know everyone says that they never line up properly but it is usually only a bees dick out and if you have more than one housing available you can usually find one that fits properly.

I did one of these not long ago.

I think a have same question, but as I can notice the parts are not exactly the same.
I would like to convert a remote to use the original magic wand.
Here is what a have:

I need to know what is missing to convert to a magic wand.
Fernando

rich@minispares.com wrote:

mab01uk wrote:Remember the 4 synch magic wand gearlever is different, ie. has the keyway slot in the ball at the top not side.



Photo shows parts needed to run the magic wand set up with the remote diff casing.
eg. when a Mk2/3 Four synchro box is used on a mk1

2A3467 Bush
2A3390 Spring
22A1832 Seat / Locating foot
88G553 Selector shaft
22A1717 Cover
22A1382 Gearlever 1968-75 (Later type wand with slot at the top of ball)

3 synchro type (both have slot at the side)
22A91 GEAR LEVER, straight 1959-61.
88G232 GEAR LEVER, cranked 1961-68

Diagram:
http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/in ... age&id=151

Adaptor plate:

that's the 1970-72 van conversion that allows a magic wand stick to be used on a 1128 with a REMOTE back - i.e a remote could be used if you wish


the gearbox been discussed further above is the 1128 that has a MAGIC WAND back fitted at the factory - that looks like a std 'pure' magic wand box all be that its a four sync inside


there are two different gearboxes - this confusion always comes up when the 850 box is mentioned on here!!!!

the big advantage with the '1128 magic wand' is that it looks factory standard when fitted so nobody need know that you have got rid of the nasty 3 sync box

The remote shift setup in your car is not standard. It looks like an aftermarket kit (possibly SPQR brand?) mated to the original gearbox.

You have an "850" diff housing, which is the one you want. All you would need to do is remove the current shifting linkage (by taking out the plate held in with the two bolts) and putting the correct gear lever in it's place. I can't tell from the photo if the gear lever you have is correct or not, mine doesn't have the kink at the bottom like yours.

This is my gear lever:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/533/1917 ... a52f_b.jpg

And on a related note, I have a 22G1128 4 sync gearbox here for my eventual engine build. I have an 850 "magic wand" diff housing which fits perfectly on the back of the gearbox. Best of both worlds IMO


I did buy a "pudding stirrer" housing for it (4 sync direct shift). But I didn't have all the pieces, and I figured the 850 shift should line up with the hole in the floor of my 850.

I might line them all up at home and take some photos for reference.