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I wonder which car this went into?

£522 in 1968. That wasn't cheap!

More than a years wages for a young man... to put that into perspective .. mmm nice spec tho 118 bhp !!... foxy52

gs.davies wrote:£522 in 1968. That wasn't cheap!

It does look like a works competition engine build though and an 8 port at that.

Apparently an S was £921 in 1968! This is an astonishing amount of money relative to the cost of the car!

Still, no VAT in those days.

well I would be disappointed at the eight port giving 118 BHP , my 1293 5 port puts out the same on Southams rollers at the wheels

No VAT, but we had purchase tax !!!

Rusty old S wrote:well I would be disappointed at the eight port giving 118 BHP , my 1293 5 port puts out the same on Southams rollers at the wheels

Might have been a 970 or 1071 though. I think my 970 was around the 115hp mark with Arden head in the late 60's early 70's.

'Press road test' there must be an article out there on this!

Page 201 from Bill Price's ""The BMC/BL Competitions Department""



Page 74 From Brian Moylan ""Anatomy of the works Mini's""
The bottom of page 73 Reads ""The Car with fuel injection.....""


Take note power lost getting to the rollers is 22/24 bhp and that's with a full set S/C gears.

Even taking into account engine development over the years some BHP figures do seem optimistic.

Rolling roads figures do vary a lot but they are great for when you are talking in the pub or on forums.

Isn't there a press review of an ??? 777 F works demonstrator with an 8 port head? It was the ST hack during the late 60's. I am sure I have seen one in CCC.

On a separate note, actual dyno figures are meaningless, just look at the results that Downton were obtaining throughout most of the 60's. To say "Those figures look disappointing" fails to take into account the 1000's of Club, National & International wins that Downton engines contributed to. They may not have been great fans of Bullshit BHP figures, but as a wise man once said. . . . . .

"When the flag drops, the Bullshit stops".

£522 was a bit. I wonder what it would have been to add the bottom half of the engine and a gear box to that?

In the same time period Richard Miles (Downton, London), offered what they considered a new full race spec Group 2 engine and gear box for £650. Not an 8 port.

A new standard Cooper 'S' engine and gearbox unit from BMC was £235.

Fitzpatrick is the test driver on the invoice but doesn't remember the job, though does say he was very friendly with the Richmonds and that he may have done a quick test whilst in Wiltshire. There's two more similar invoices I've sent to Mark for the website courtesy of Nick Wardley. I agree with Mark, most likely a rally engine.

mk1 wrote:Isn't there a press review of an ??? 777 F works demonstrator with an 8 port head? It was the ST hack during the late 60's. I am sure I have seen one in CCC.

but as a wise man once said. . . . . .

"When the flag drops, the Bullshit stops".

Certainly clever, wise at times is debateable.

Rally car engine in Feb 68, seems very doubtful. Will Sparrow was noted for running an 8 port rally car and iirc that was 69?, but definitely 70. More than likely at that time a british saloon car championship private entrantor rich club competitor.

You really have to take Dyno figures with a pinch of salt. They seam to vary by as much as 10bhp for every 100bhp from engine builder to engine builder. Downtons 100bhp could be 110bhp on Joe blogs Dyno today. It's not a fair comparison.

Rally car engine in Feb 68, seems very doubtful.

The one I am thinking of was a press demonstrator, not a pure competition car, this would also explain the customer details on the invoice.

C&CC did test ORX 7F Mark, one of the JBLs , though I think they were a 5 port, but also OBL 45F much later.

Nevsmini wrote:You really have to take Dyno figures with a pinch of salt. They seam to vary by as much as 10bhp for every 100bhp from engine builder to engine builder. Downtons 100bhp could be 110bhp on Joe blogs Dyno today. It's not a fair comparison.

Cosworth HPs were always thought to be better fed than most.

If this is the same family, the Startin's were long term coachbuilders.

The engine may have been for this car.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/boo66/577 ... 782837611/

http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/facts-a ... illie-son/