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Pete wrote:Always a complex conversation topic is this and to some may seem non productive (understandably) but it's always so refreshing (and so unusual) to see an honest car like this 'as discovered' without a secretive backdrop and I'm sure the owner will find it interesting to uncover it's history.

Pete, exactly! I am willing to bet most on this forum are very interested in the gritty details, educated guesses, the detective work on the history of these cars. It's fascinating to try and put the "evidence" together from what details are available. And therein is the value of open disclosure and discussion. Similar to the thread on 129 LNP, the details lead to debate, which leads to more details, and then more debate......and so on. Which is why I intend to post anything I find out about my car, because I think it is important in the context of understanding these cars over so many years of competition and ownership.

Another excellent thread, thanks to everyone for sharing this information.

Although implied in my last post, I didn't state the obvious - that GRX309D was a then current year reg no that they would have wanted to keep for the time being, hence the first car being disposed of unregistered. DJB92B was getting too old to appear on a front line car any longer, so could go with the car. (As DJB93B would almost certainly have done if the car had survived the Gulf....).
The test car also mentioned has no indication arches were ever fitted and is a Morris. I know how easy it is to change - but we are looking at the balance of probabilities and on that basis and the other detail it is not likely to be 309. The other new early 66 cars, 310 and DJB92B were almost certainly Morrises (given Makinen and Aaltonen's financial arrangements) but have credible 66 re-use.
I cannot find a logical scenario for these 4 early 66 cars to have entered into a different, confused, number plate swapping situation at that time.
I should also state that most of these replica arguments are new to me, so I have no axe to grind. I was away from Mini interests for nearly 40 years. The only thing I regret is not having a massive showdown with the then owner (like me, a rallyman with whom I had spoken before) of DJB93B when it appeared at Longleat Hillclimb fresh from whatever it underwent...

Just in case anyone is in any doubt, here's an example of some Abingdon number plate swappage

Dave Gilbert always had a story that when was stripping GRX310D for rebuild he found a spare key for his car, the key fitted his car but the label fob was another 66 reg car.

davidnutland wrote:Dave Gilbert always had a story that when was stripping GRX310D for rebuild he found a spare key for his car, the key fitted his car but the label fob was another 66 reg car.

great story, but to be fair most keys fit a few locks as standard!


maybe the works standardised the locksets used on works cars to avoid the agro of having lots of different keys?

yes very true and ford keys in mini locks, but the point is it had the same number as the barrel.

Forgive me for having to ask , I know the significance of some of the items in some of the photos but I am wondering what is bolted to the bonnet hinge most visible in the shots with the master cylinder close up and why would there be holes in the header rail on passenger side .
Just wondering .

David

Pauls works body shell exibits the correct holes that would be there for a gp1 car where the various tool bags and spare parts bags where located It is obvious the arches that are on the car now are gp 6 type which did not exist in 1966 The flowers according to paddy was a VERY rough event The floor of car is suitably VERY used.

So now we've got to find out what it did between the Flowers and getting sold off. Another rally under a different guise ?? As Dave has said those twin washers are a good give away and as yet I haven't seen another rally car with those on...unless anyone knows different...?

I've found another couple of shots from the Polish rally but kind of academic as it's assumed from photo evidence to be a different car.

I'll try and scan it up, but have a look at page 9 of Brian Moylans anatomy of the works minis. Another works mini with twin washers ?AJB 44B or is it ??
Dave.

Great close up photo 1071bob!

Question: does anyone know what the small decal is, bottom middle of the windscreen, under the wiper blade? I wonder if it is just like the one that was on my car, would have said "Laminated" and was yellow....

Had a look through all my works Mini shots and apart from AJB 44B on the '65 Monte as pictured above I think I've spied another car a little nearer to GRX 309D. Not sure if it's my eyesight but GRX 5D appears to have twin washer jets on the Tulip two months after The Flowers :



Can't find any other cars with this feature. I seem to remember seeing a photo of the car above at the end of the rally and it looked pretty ragged on the front (?). Can't find that shot at the minute though.

dwb998 wrote:Pauls works body shell exibits the correct holes that would be there for a gp1 car where the various tool bags and spare parts bags where located It is obvious the arches that are on the car now are gp 6 type which did not exist in 1966 The flowers according to paddy was a VERY rough event The floor of car is suitably VERY used.

The lack of arches has led to some folk assuming the car was a group 1 car – which it wasn’t . Certainly the lines inside should lead you away from that thought.

I have a book on the Sanremo Rally, also know as the Rally of the Flowers, with Italian text but translation side bars, this does mention Hopkirk on the 66 event - but goes onto say “....and Hopkirk, whose Mini Cooper was by then a wreck, and was very much a lager” It also lists Hopkirk as being 15th o/a (not 16th as Works Mini book). Also they were 8th in Group 2.

So the inference could be the car was in poor condition and was very likely never used again and a registration swap or a new car put together for the Polish.

Robert Young

Flygirl wrote:Great close up photo 1071bob!

Question: does anyone know what the small decal is, bottom middle of the windscreen, under the wiper blade? I wonder if it is just like the one that was on my car, would have said "Laminated" and was yellow....

it will be a 'laminated' badge, I have seen them in green as well.

I guess they fitted them as an 'obvious' pointer to scruitneers to aid them during the inspections - its better than peering at a screen looking for the tiny triplex writing

youngres wrote:

dwb998 wrote:Pauls works body shell exibits the correct holes that would be there for a gp1 car where the various tool bags and spare parts bags where located It is obvious the arches that are on the car now are gp 6 type which did not exist in 1966 The flowers according to paddy was a VERY rough event The floor of car is suitably VERY used.

The lack of arches has led to some folk assuming the car was a group 1 car – which it wasn’t . Certainly the lines inside should lead you away from that thought.

I have a book on the Sanremo Rally, also know as the Rally of the Flowers, with Italian text but translation side bars, this does mention Hopkirk on the 66 event - but goes onto say “....and Hopkirk, whose Mini Cooper was by then a wreck, and was very much a lager” It also lists Hopkirk as being 15th o/a (not 16th as Works Mini book). Also they were 8th in Group 2.

So the inference could be the car was in poor condition and was very likely never used again and a registration swap or a new car put together for the Polish.

Robert Young

Thanks for the confirmation of Group 2 Robert, and the documented comment of the car being a "wreck". This again confirms our theory of the identity being transferred to a "new" car for the Polish.
Regards
Dave

Glad to have helped.

Robert

rich@minispares.com wrote:

Flygirl wrote:Great close up photo 1071bob!
Question: does anyone know what the small decal is, bottom middle of the windscreen, under the wiper blade? I wonder if it is just like the one that was on my car, would have said "Laminated" and was yellow....

it will be a 'laminated' badge, I have seen them in green as well.
I guess they fitted them as an 'obvious' pointer to scruitneers to aid them during the inspections - its better than peering at a screen looking for the tiny triplex writing

IIRC laminated screens came from the manufacturer with the sticker attached. They may well have left them in place as an aid at that time (but probably not after Jan 66...). I think I removed mine, just to make the scrutineers work harder. Later on, most scrutineers went equipped with polaroid sunglasses to check screens easily. At that time laminated screens were only mandated on International events and it was quite a few years before they were required on lower status UK stage (not road) rallies.

Pete wrote:Had a look through all my works Mini shots and apart from AJB 44B on the '65 Monte as pictured above I think I've spied another car a little nearer to GRX 309D. Not sure if it's my eyesight but GRX 5D appears to have twin washer jets on the Tulip two months after The Flowers
Can't find any other cars with this feature. I seem to remember seeing a photo of the car above at the end of the rally and it looked pretty ragged on the front (?). Can't find that shot at the minute though.

I couldn't recall what the Gp1 regs said about it, so I checked. Unusually, they specifically permit drilling holes in a panel to fit washers. Would they have bothered on 5D if it didn't have them before? Probably not - or maybe the answer lies in who drove it on that Tulip (and AJB44B on 65 Monte). No one else was quite so obsessive about some currently favoured tweak.
Another photo on the Tulip does suggest it might have had twin washers (painted black).

From what I recall then, from people playing around with them at club level, they didn't work ie. a single, stronger concentrated jet was better. However, like 15" wheels on Escorts with the tyres of the day, it not working as well never stopped Makinen insisting on the latest "must have"....

Probably should of asked this a while ago as it's an obvious one, but can anyone advise where we may be able to view a copy of the Abingdon build sheet ( if such a thing still exists ) for the 66 flowers for ideally GRX 309D or Fall's 66 flowers car GRX 5D ?
Many thanks
Dave