ACS 65C - Mk 1 Cooper S

[richardACS]

Nick - please excuse my ignorance but what are 'sling shoe' brackets?

The rear ones like in the MS link are handed. The two at the front are not handed.

Minimachine do them but do not fit them as standard practice but would have done so if asked. As Nick says, not many people knew about them as most have rotted away long before we get to them to restore.

I have some pics somewhere in the HOY folder....will find them and post up.

Practically, they are a waste of time fitting....but, its another sign of attention to detail, even if you cant see them

Pic attached of the hydro pipe and incorrect positioning of the multi finger tabs

Andrew

Many thanks for this update, the hydro pipe clips will be easy to correct, such a shame that Mini Spares did not mention the slingers when purchasing the floor...

[Andrew1967]

Have you got the big tab in the middle on the underside of the boot floor to take the two pipes ... something like this ....

Also, you'll need to drill the holes for the rear gear change mount bracket ...

Note the little captive nuts welded to the inner sill to take the radius arm shroud.

[Andrew1967]

Here's the pics of the slinging shoe brackets ....

[richardACS]

Thank you for that detail Andrew - I cannot see why they don't put these in the floor during production or at least get the sales outlets to highlight the situation, will give Mini Spares a call over this - would you consider retro installing? would mean a big cut and re - weld

[Andrew1967]

Personally I don't think I'd bother Richard, seems a bit much to cut the new panels about to fit them.

I mentioned it to Doreen at MiniMachine and I think they leave them out to help keep the cost down and fact that they are, in reality, useless !

They will add them if you specify or ordering but as not many people are aware of them ...

[richardACS]

I mentioned this to Paul who did the work and he was of the same opinion that there is enough strength in there, still I would have fitted them any way!

One needs to do two of these restorations, one to learn the next to get it right!

Have still to crawl underneath to look at the brackets you mentioned...

Very interested to see the next phase with HOY - the paint system I'm looking at is Novol, do you have something else in mind?

[Andrew1967]

They are literally just the factory jig mounting points when the shell was on the line, as far as I know. Useless after production, but still nice to know they are in there.

Currently HOY is in 1st stage 2k epoxy primer, which is waterproof, unlike a lot of primers. It has had the necessary filler work and will then have 2k high build primer.

I did think about getting a professional 2k pint finish but have decided, at present, to go with the Gipgloss cellulose top coat for a more authentic finish.

Underside is being done in 2k Surf blue tinted Raptor.

This wont be done until the Spring due to not having a proper paint shop. Mechanical work will start over the winter months.

[Costafortune]

Minis were never painted in Cellulose. Cowley replaced it with with enamel around 1949/50 and Longbridge shortly after. Cellulose is okay if you have time for perfect prep and then flatting/polishing and car factories don't. Vauxhall used Acrylic first in 1963 and BMC would have followed. BMC tried synthetic enamel but it fades quickly.

Cellulose will not go over 2 pack without a reaction at some stage. You can use a sealer but it's all a PITA.

A decent 2-pack gun finish with slight orange peel and flatted back just enough to de-nib is enough.

[Andrew1967]

Minis were never painted in Cellulose. Cowley replaced it with with enamel around 1949/50 and Longbridge shortly after. Cellulose is okay if you have time for perfect prep and then flatting/polishing and car factories don't. Vauxhall used Acrylic first in 1963 and BMC would have followed. BMC tried synthetic enamel but it fades quickly.

Cellulose will not go over 2 pack without a reaction at some stage. You can use a sealer but it's all a PITA.

A decent 2-pack gun finish with slight orange peel and flatted back just enough to de-nib is enough.

Yeah, cellulose isn't original but it is a nicer and more authentic looking finish.

Not sure about the reaction issue, everyone else I've spoken to seem to say its fine to do it that way but not 2 pack over cellulose

[richardACS]

Have you got the big tab in the middle on the underside of the boot floor to take the two pipes ... something like this ....

Also, you'll need to drill the holes for the rear gear change mount bracket ...

Note the little captive nuts welded to the inner sill to take the radius arm shroud.

Rear Gear change bracket noted, Captive nuts for radius arm shroud not installed - my first thought is to create a depression from the surface sufficient to accept the head of a rivnut.

I don't think I have the big tab - or indeed smaller ones in this location , I wonder why it has to be quite so large when the finger size elsewhere seems to do the job?

[richardACS]

Minis were never painted in Cellulose. Cowley replaced it with with enamel around 1949/50 and Longbridge shortly after. Cellulose is okay if you have time for perfect prep and then flatting/polishing and car factories don't. Vauxhall used Acrylic first in 1963 and BMC would have followed. BMC tried synthetic enamel but it fades quickly.

Cellulose will not go over 2 pack without a reaction at some stage. You can use a sealer but it's all a PITA.

A decent 2-pack gun finish with slight orange peel and flatted back just enough to de-nib is enough.

Yeah, cellulose isn't original but it is a nicer and more authentic looking finish.

Not sure about the reaction issue, everyone else I've spoken to seem to say its fine to do it that way but not 2 pack over cellulose

This is interesting - "a more authentic finish" does this mean a slightly orange peel finish as mentioned by costa fortune? and not a very smoothed, highly polished appearance? I'm not sure what the objective should be or how to articulate it but certainly not a mirror/heavily worked finish...

[Nick W]

Painting cellulose over 2k primer wont react , as the primer will have enough depth to prevent it. Only when its spot primed and has a feathered edge can it rip up.
One issue can be adhesion between the 2k and cellulose, as modern 2k paint bond together with adhesion promoters added to the paint during manufacture. Where as cellulose used to literally melt together, but this wont happen when painted over 2k primer as its not soluble.
This is my understanding , and maybe they have changed the way cellulose is made to take in to account modern primers.
But dont worry for a classic car that will not see damp conditions it wont be a problem
Nick

[Andrew1967]

Thanks for that info Nick, I think you mean it'll (or should) be OK.

Richard, the finish really does depend on how its applied. We use an expensive extra flow top gloss thinner for the top coats and the final coat is applied with about 75% thinner, to allow it to flow out.

We have never found it necessary to cut back and polish to get a good finish. Not as good as 2 pack obviously but not orange peel either.

Care must be taken with that final coat - never go back if you think there is a dry spot as any further application will run faster than Usain Bolt

[Daz1968]

I am no expert with paint, but I tried cellulose and couldn’t get on with it, I ended up using epoxy primer, then high build 2k, ti green was best I found for easy sanding, then 2k direct gloss, I also found using farecla disposable cup system was brilliant as you can even spray upside down in awkward areas and makes gun cleaning really quick and easy,
I think 2k gloss with a little flatting and polishing looks pretty good and removes its plastic appearance.
Biggest learning curve is getting the prep right and getting the right tools.

[Exminiman]

Minis were never painted in Cellulose. Cowley replaced it with with enamel around 1949/50 and Longbridge shortly after

You live and learn, had assumed early Minis were all Celly....
Is enamel another name for another paint? Or did they actually spray enamel ?

[Nick W]

Minis were never painted in Cellulose. Cowley replaced it with with enamel around 1949/50 and Longbridge shortly after

You live and learn, had assumed early Minis were all Celly....
Is enamel another name for another paint? Or did they actually spray enamel ?

its not the same as vitreous enamel found on badges etc, I think it was an oil based air dry product.

some cellulose was called enamel

[Costafortune]

Thanks for that info Nick, I think you mean it'll (or should) be OK.

Richard, the finish really does depend on how its applied. We use an expensive extra flow top gloss thinner for the top coats and the final coat is applied with about 75% thinner, to allow it to flow out.

We have never found it necessary to cut back and polish to get a good finish. Not as good as 2 pack obviously but not orange peel either.

Care must be taken with that final coat - never go back if you think there is a dry spot as any further application will run faster than Usain Bolt

Or you could use 2 pack acrylic and avoid any issues, having a better and tougher paint finish.

[Costafortune]

Minis were never painted in Cellulose. Cowley replaced it with with enamel around 1949/50 and Longbridge shortly after

You live and learn, had assumed early Minis were all Celly....
Is enamel another name for another paint? Or did they actually spray enamel ?

Synthetic enamel came first along with the bonderising rotadip. Synthetic is a PITA as you cannot paint over it with anything other than more synthetic. ICI used to sell stuff called Permobel, a fantastic gloss from the gun synthetic but god help you if you got a run. You couldn't flat and polish it either.
BMC started using acrylics in the late fifties, paint and hardener for rapid drying, good coverage, less prep and rectification. I did a body/paint apprenticeship with a BL dealer in 1985 and one of the old boys worked at Cowley painting Oxfords and Minors.

[Andrew1967]

Thanks for that info Nick, I think you mean it'll (or should) be OK.

Richard, the finish really does depend on how its applied. We use an expensive extra flow top gloss thinner for the top coats and the final coat is applied with about 75% thinner, to allow it to flow out.

We have never found it necessary to cut back and polish to get a good finish. Not as good as 2 pack obviously but not orange peel either.

Care must be taken with that final coat - never go back if you think there is a dry spot as any further application will run faster than Usain Bolt

Or you could use 2 pack acrylic and avoid any issues, having a better and tougher paint finish.

As I wont be painting it until next year, I have time to decide, although I have bought the Surf Cellulose already.

I'm also a bit concerned about painting top coat 2 pack without the correct air fed mask. Primer is OK as at least you can do a bit and leave it ....

[iain1967s]

Very much an amateur job, but I painted a car with Sherwood Parsons “re-paint” bought from Halfords in the late 80’s/early 90’s. It was supposed to be a paint which could be hand applied by brush or roller, but I ended up spraying it with a home-made compressor using an empty Calor gas tank as a reservoir...

It was a fairly thick oil based stuff as I remember, went on quick and coverage was good, but it took forever to dry. But I think that was the point - it levelled out any marks from brush application so did a good job of hiding my poor prep on the primer too - I was spraying British Racing Green with a Diamond White roof on top of high build cellulose white/grey primer.

A nightmare for clean-up, it stuck to anything like sh*t to a blanket - despite me making a ‘spray booth’ out of brown paper, everything else within the garage such as bicycles and tools was covered in a thin layer of green overspray for years afterwards - much to my parents chagrin. But it did look really good when it dried, and no runs or orange peel / blooming.

I sprayed a coupe of other mini’s and a metro wing using cellulose, but even with ‘quick thinners’ I could never get it totally run free. The thicker stuff just seems to be easier to apply. All done using a proper organic filter mask by the way - I might have been a young 20 year old, but I wasn’t completely stupid...

Fast forward 30 years, and more recently I’ve had good results with this stuff.