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Pete wrote: I managed to get some stills this morning

I've stuck some moving pics on Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD1NpRTpq1I




PS I hope they don't get pulled for breach of Copyright

Just when you think it's going a bit quiete something else turns up ! We are now looking into other recce's that the car may have done.
Thanks for all the input.
Dave

The records I have show that 309D did four recces. The first was for the 66 Circuit of Ireland in April with Hopkirk and Harryman, the second, that Acropolis for the May and then the 66 Alpine with Fall and Wood. Not sure if it was for the Austrian Alpine run in May or the French Alpine in September.

If it were this car it was probably for the Austrian Alpine, as the Polish Rally, in August, saw a new 309 built for that, so I'd think the Austrian recce was its swan song if it were to be this car. Otherwise it was the Polish 309D on the French Alpine recce. 309D also did a recce for the 1967 Monte with again Fall and Wood - but that was very likely the 1966 RAC and Welsh car.

Robert Young

Thank you Robert. That is great information and very much appreciated. Do you have access to any other images that we could see ?
Regards
Dave

I would guess the French Alpine ("Coupe des Alpes" - "Rallye des Alpes" up to early 50s), since "the Alpine" invariably refers to the great French event and the more junior (although long standing) "Alpenfahrt" was usually referred to in English as "the Austrian Alpine".
Use as recce car on French Alpine would explain why the Polish 309D didn't re-appear competing as a car and the number plate didn't compete again until the RAC, on a new car.

The 66 Austrian Alpine was 12-15 May and the Acropolis was 26-29 May. Hopkirk and Crellin are recorded as travelling direct from the finish of the Austrian Alpine to Greece for their final Acropolis recce. They could have driven in a recce car or flown but are unlikely to have driven 309D from Austria to Greece, since the initial Acropolis recce with Easter and Liddon in 309D would probably have coincided with or even pre-dated the Austrian Alpine. 309D could have been used for an initial Austrian Alpine recce and then gone on to Greece but by whom? Easter and Liddon were both competing on the Acropolis so it was logical for them to do an initial recce for it. As they were not competing in Austria, it doesn't seem likely they would do an "initial" Austrian recce for the team, as it was a lesser event and Fall/Wood and Hopkirk/Crellin would probably have just done their own recces.

If "Youngres" has records of recce cars, listing them for these events would help. The video above shows GRX555D in Greece as a recce car, still in Group One spec. It then re-appears competing on the Polish in Gp 2 spec. Another one worth looking for is GRX5D, competing on the Tulip in April in Gp 1 spec but not competing on another rally until the RAC, with Makinen in Gp2 spec. Use as a recce car for Austria, Greece or later seems possible. The Gp2 GRX5D and GRX555D were almost certainly new cars.
Not listed as a works entry, a Gp1 ex-Vltava recce car was re-prepared and re-engined " by Abingdon mechanics "in country" for a local driver on that event. Could only be 5D or 555D. Probably 5D, since 555D had been knackered recceing the Acropolis.

Evidence of use of 309D on the Monte raises the number plate swapping scenario again. I am still trying to find a photo of 309D after Fall's Welsh shunt, as it is reported to have suffered significant rear end damage and could have been scrapped. The 67 Monte recce 309D could have been the 309D that did part of the 66 RAC, with the Welsh 309D being another car with that plate on it. The RAC 309D was however an obvious choice for the Welsh, with a new engine/transmission, as all other RAC cars either went much further and would be well knackered or were effectively written off on the event (Lampinen)....but why rebuild a badly damaged 309D after the Welsh to use as a Monte recce car when busy building the actual Monte cars? Initial 67 Monte recce, probably using a standard car, would have coincided with the 66 Welsh in December anyway).

youngres wrote:The records I have show that 309D did four recces. The first was for the 66 Circuit of Ireland in April with Hopkirk and Harryman, the second, that Acropolis for the May and then the 66 Alpine with Fall and Wood. Not sure if it was for the Austrian Alpine run in May or the French Alpine in September.

I'll see if Mike Wood has any pictures of the '66 Alpine recce, he did tale a lot of pictures on recces.

Knicked off Facebook .. Off topic but .....

More stuff off Facebook

Would be recce for 68 Monte, not test or shakedown in the sense that was understood at the time. Paddy Hopkirk won the Monte in 1964 only, so nothing to do with his win - but all about his participation (and rest of team) in 68. These are fully prepared Gp2 cars, so were intended for the "fast" recce for two of the crews. I saw a standard car in early December 67 on its way to Dover for the initial recce.
I think OBL45F was Fall's car for the cancelled 67 RAC Rally (or was that 48F?), so was unused, unlike most recce cars. (Hopkirk's 67 RAC car was OBL46F and it ran in the TV stage on the Sunday).

You never know when information is going to prove relevant for this thread but this is a bit too late to be relevant to the history of GRX309D.
Should there be a separate thread for such data? (although you never know when information is suddenly going to become relevant to this particular thread)

LMM76C wrote:Would be recce for 68 Monte, not test or shakedown in the sense that was understood at the time. Paddy Hopkirk won the Monte in 1964 only, so nothing to do with his win - but all about his participation (and rest of team) in 68. These are fully prepared Gp2 cars, so were intended for the "fast" recce for two of the crews. I saw a standard car in early December 67 on its way to Dover for the initial recce.
I think OBL45F was Fall's car for the cancelled 67 RAC Rally (or was that 48F?), so was unused, unlike most recce cars. (Hopkirk's 67 RAC car was OBL46F and it ran in the TV stage on the Sunday).

You never know when information is going to prove relevant for this thread but this is a bit too late to be relevant to the history of GRX309D.
Should there be a separate thread for such data? (although you never know when information is suddenly going to become relevant to this particular thread)

yes please change to another thread, love the idea of taking AJB home on my lunch break

LMM76C wrote:
I think OBL45F was Fall's car for the cancelled 67 RAC Rally (or was that 48F?), so was unused, unlike most recce cars. (Hopkirk's 67 RAC car was OBL46F and it ran in the TV stage on the Sunday).

I think that Tony Fall was assigned JMO969D for the cancelled RAC and yes, Hopkirk had OBL46F which was a Mk1 Cooper S

Robert Young

youngres wrote:

LMM76C wrote:
I think OBL45F was Fall's car for the cancelled 67 RAC Rally (or was that 48F?), so was unused, unlike most recce cars. (Hopkirk's 67 RAC car was OBL46F and it ran in the TV stage on the Sunday).

I think that Tony Fall was assigned JMO969D for the cancelled RAC and yes, Hopkirk had OBL46F which was a Mk1 Cooper S

Robert Young

I don't know. I must have got the reg no from a photo though, to have been unsure about 45 or 48.
JMO969D seems to do one of the longest disappearing acts in works history (over a year) as a rally car in events that actually took place. I think it appears as a recce car in 67 doesn't it? Presumably it was a new car for 67 RAC. What was the reg no on Ytterbring's 67 RAC car (the only other works Mini after Makinen, Hopkirk and Fall)?

LMM76C wrote: What was the reg no on Ytterbring's 67 RAC car (the only other works Mini after Makinen, Hopkirk and Fall)?

U8448 was Ytterbrings number for that RAC, seeded at number 80. And I'm sure that Fall was in JMO969D at number 27

U8448 was for sale recently in Sweden albeit it had been re-shelled I believe.

From Mike Wood about the '66 Austrian Alpine recce in GRX 309D :

"I remember my recce with Tony for the 1966 Austrian Alpine Rally, in fact surprisingly it was my very first recce ever. Unfortunately no photographs, I did not start taking them until I bought a reasonably decent camera for the 1967 Monte recce!"

ORX 777F has arrived at a friend of mine's garage for full restoration. He runs a fantastic bodyshop / restoration company and has built and competes in a beautiful replica of Paddy Hopkirk's lightweight GRX 311D that was used on the '69 Circuit of Ireland.

So that's 777F and 707F living in N Ireland.

I'll see if I can get a couple pics of it before it gets restored.

A couple pics of what ORX 777F looks like from a couple weeks ago before going in for restoration. Can't wait to see how she turns out. Hopefully the current owner will use her the way she was designed to be used and not live too pampered a life.

Thanks for the pics.......this appears to be another unrestored genuine works car...fantastic. Do you have any information of how complete it is ? Can anyone add anymore historic details ?

Regards
Dave

It's been in cooper world recently.

Yes... did see that, thanks. Not a lot of info. though. I was wondering if it has an ( original Abingdon ) engine, subframes, suspension, hydrolastic ? etc ??? Hopefully not just another mini attached to a works reg. number. Let's hope there's some remnants of Abingdon there !