Works car found

[Pete]

reshelled a couple of times and then put onto the freshly built sebring race car

I've long thought that the Sebring race car was a fresh build because it featured a Mk2 style bootlid which I strongly suspect wasn't actually available before Graham Hill's '66 RAC car was built. I suppose that's Incidental to this thread though folks which is about the first incarnation, and do we think that the Polish car was the same one ?? Does it even matter ? Probably not.. Found another shot of the Flowers car taken from the front, I'll post up later. The rear end / bootlid details luck spot on aswell don't they (not the badges) when compared to the discovered car.

[graham.codling]

Fantastic find would love to see it at blyton including dust .whoever these so called experts are to suggest keep it quiet hide it under the carpet etc should be ashamed of themselves if they found it I bet it would be a different ball game I think they need to get out more

[LMM76C]

Can anyone point to a photo of GRX195D on the 66 Monte? I know I've seen one recently - I'll look on ForumAuto.
This was a car that seems to have been built in parallel with GRX309D and to the same spec. (unarched but Gp2). Few cars were like that in 66. It then disappears until the Coupe des Alpes in September and the RAC in November. It could have become a practice car in between but it is unlikely that a car for the CdesA would be a re-fettled ex-practice car. It makes full sense for a new car to appear on the (tarmac) CdesA and then be re-used on the RAC by the same driver.
It looks as if the Flowers GRX309D may not be the same car as the Polish GRX309D. (why would you remove studs and fill the holes for the headlamp cover straps and re-drill new ones?). So was the Polish GRX309D GRX195D with a plate change?
Contradicting the logic above for GRX195D not being new for the RAC, it would make sense for a new shell to be used for GRX309D for the RAC because it was the car most likely to be photographed (particularly by the non-specialist media) so would have to look its best. It's recognised that Abingdon re-shelled cars purely for cosmetic reasons.

[LMM76C]

Well...all you can say is the light cover stud drilling for the Polish GRX309D seems to be the same but those on the Flowers GRX309D are not. (forget it's a Morris, the removable panels don't prove anything)

[Pete]

[spoon.450]

Twin windscreen washers visible again on car 50, S badge position a bit low ?? The bonnet on Pauls car is not original so we cannot check this. Thanks for the pics. chaps.

[Flygirl]

Hi guys,

Very interesting information on GRX 309D. It seems it was quite common to send re-shells to the US. I found a few photos that might be of interest to the thread, regarding the US GRX 309D car.

Here is a pic of Hopkirk at Sebring in 1967 with GRX 309D:


Entry list from 1967 Sebring:


A newspaper article later in the year, the American Road Race of Champions (ARRC) at Daytona, FL:


Here is a pic of our car #64 (not 129 LNP) at that time owned and raced by Red Schimberg in P2 on the grid, with GRX 309D in P3, at the ARRC Daytona in 1967:


Another photo of GRX 309D at the same event, leading the Overseas Motors Purple People Eater Mini:


So, just like 129 LNP, plenty of evidence a Mini body shell with a chassis number was imported to the US and raced there.......

[fridgeman]

hello there, just like to introduce myself, i mark pauls younger better looking brother,i used to go with him ride a bouts fetching cars when he had bought them,most he still has all these years later,i ,am 58 now long time ago. We often used to take the pee for buying these cars and doing nothing with them while we would have a car for a year or so and then sell them for a few hundred quid,lotus cortinas and alike all the time paul kept these in his barn.

Anyway i went with paul to fetch this car from down birmingham way the exact location i cannot remember,i can remember it being bought as a 970S with the engine out in bits ,and a couple of guys going on about its rally history and this johny organ and a letter being passed over. Only recently has this all been resurrected as i have had my twin cam escort restored and paul has got the bug to start sorting through his cars and what he is going to keep and what he is going to sell, bearing in mind he has several of these cars.So as far as it being to good to be true just turning up like this i think its fair to say you can believe it,not only that he,s got a few more cars that are going to just turn up !

[Martin Price]

Thanks for all the positive replies on this thread and to think, we very nearly didn't post it! Good to hear from Paul's brother too!
We've just arrived back from Bingley Hall Mini show. Dave, myself and Paul were fortunate enough to have ten minutes talking to Paddy Hopkirk, what a gent! We briefly told him we'd just found the car he drove on the Rally of the Flowers. Straight away he told us that the Rally of the Flowers was the rally his gearbox failed on 50yrds before the end of the last stage and they were pushed out by one of his service vehicles, which damaged the rear of his car. This came as really interesting news to us as we'd noticed Paul's Mini has had a major repair on the back panel. He also told us the rally was a very muddy which might explain why the car was fitted with the double washers.
Anyway, as we were talking to the great Paddy we took the opportunity to get a photo of him with Paul.
Great to meet Pete Flanagan and co. Looking forward to his Mk1 day at Blyton which Paul has given us the go ahead to display his car at, so roll on Blyton!

[Pete]

Nice to meet you all as well Martin. I'm sure you could find some better detailed shots from the San Remo rally, definitely worth asking LAT. I'll send you the contact.

[SMOKE GREY]

Thanks for all the positive replies on this thread and to think, we very nearly didn't post it! Good to hear from Paul's brother too!
We've just arrived back from Bingley Hall Mini show. Dave, myself and Paul were fortunate enough to have ten minutes talking to Paddy Hopkirk, what a gent! We briefly told him we'd just found the car he drove on the Rally of the Flowers. Straight away he told us that the Rally of the Flowers was the rally his gearbox failed on 50yrds before the end of the last stage and they were pushed out by one of his service vehicles, which damaged the rear of his car. This came as really interesting news to us as we'd noticed Paul's Mini has had a major repair on the back panel. He also told us the rally was a very muddy which might explain why the car was fitted with the double washers.
Anyway, as we were talking to the great Paddy we took the opportunity to get a photo of him with Paul.
Great to meet Pete Flanagan and co. Looking forward to his Mk1 day at Blyton which Paul has given us the go ahead to display his car at, so roll on Blyton!

Paddy is quite correct about the Flowers 'push', but that was 1967 (LBL590E), 309Ds first event the 66 Flowers was the first time the 4-lamp type bracket was used, a pic in the Motoring News report shows it at a service point, bonnet up, grille removed and the lamp bar swung out the way with one end resting on an axle stand. The use of 3.5" rims on a Group
2 1275 , like GRX195D on the 66 Monte was because the FIA were hot on the wheels sticking out, an 'S' on 4.5 rims and wide R7 racers had the sidewalls proud of the archline this of course cured the the now well known fibreglass arch (Tulip rally GRX310D).

Interesting the Motoring News report of the Polish rally was written by Atis, co-driver in GRX309D, and it is interesting to note that on the long straight on the the Krakow airport stage the 970 and the 1275 were near as dammit as quick in a straight line, 309 pilling 8200rpm on SP3s and a 4.2 diff, the Makinen 1275 pulling 7800rpm on R7 racers and a 4.1 diff.

[LMM76C]

The Flowers was also very rough in those days (nothing like the tarmac San Remo it became later). So, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that 309 was "retired" without doing another event. What is the state of the floor? Any indication of "bananaing"? The insets in the floor where the driver's heels (and passenger's feet) rest is another place that takes a pasting on rough events.
The answer may lie in identifying the fate of all the early 66 unarched Gp2 cars. Clearly they could be easily arched for later events. The new for 66 Appendix J had different wording from the previous (to 31.12.65.) Appendix J. The arches (priority being the Cooper race team, which faced the same problem, as new for BSCC in 66 Gp5 was much the same problem as Gp2 - or worse with wider wheels - for the first race of the 66 season).
By the Circuit of Ireland (Easter 66) arches were on the Gp2 works rally cars. That only leaves the Swedish (which was between the Monte and the Flowers) where non-arched new Gp2 cars would have been used. Those were DJB92B (ostensibly an old pre-66 Appendix J Gp2 car that had not had arches up to then) and GRX310D (which must surely have been initially built new without arches alongside GRX309D and GRX195D). I have put out a request elsewhere for photos.
There was also a non-arched/4 lamp bar car used for testing and photographed at Strata Florida around then. This was not the famous test photo of a damaged car being "destruction tested" there (CRX91B??). It could have been 309 post-Flowers.

Still part of the story (because it may finally rule out the possibility of 309 not having been re-shelled) is the RAC and Welsh. In an earlier post someone mentions the Fall car (309) on the Welsh having been damaged at the rear but in the context of the Welsh having been before the RAC. As I posted earlier on, it was not; it was after the RAC. All I can find is that he aquaplaned off on "Grimshaw's Bend" on Eppynt and "seriously bent the rear subframe". That suggests a rear impact with significant body damage. Does anyone have more on that? (it might also suggest a further re-shell, into a racer...)

"Fat At" (Atis Krauklis, Fall's co-driver on the Polish and MN's Verglas before Gerry Phillips) is understood to be still around, somewhere. Worth hunting down?

Hopkirk's 67 Flowers problem was said at the time (not least by John Davenport, co-driver of the Lancia he beat with that trick) to be a driveshaft (which probably meant coupling).

[LMM76C]

Nice to meet you all as well Martin. I'm sure you could find some better detailed shots from the San Remo rally, definitely worth asking LAT. I'll send you the contact.

Or Ted Walker (Ferret Photographic) (he was asking on TNF for car number details for a batch of Tulip Rally photos not so long ago).

[Bart Smith]

I am loving this.

[fricsman]

What a great story, so much knowledge here on the Forum! Looking forward to seeing it at Blyton Park which is becoming a "must not miss this event".

[fridgeman]

well paul says were bringing it so,does that mean i ,ll end with the job of washing it after 30 odd years ? who knows what we might find

[steve1071]

Wow, what a fantastic find. Really looking forward to seeing the car at Blyton. Sounds like another proper one, LBL66D, will be there too.

Keep the pics coming please!

[Gray]

Don't bother washing it, that as left look is great.

[spoon.450]

Some very interesting, well researched points in your last post LMM. The underside of Pauls car is very battered but I suppose that could have happened anytime during its active rally days ?? The thought of driving Strata Florida in a mini is interesting, I've been along there recently on a motorbike and it's hard work with some very deep water crossings ! There's some very good colour footage of destruction testing in this area of Wales on the MCR Mini Cooper 50 years DVD.
Just a thought, and I haven't done any research on this so excuse me if I've missed something obvious, but would I be wrong to think that 16th is not a particularly good result for Paddy on the 66 flowers, and if so do we know of any mechanical, or accidental issues contributing to this ? If the car was damaged it could have been put to one side as in 66 wasn't there plenty of minis in the comps dept. to choose from ? This may tie in with the only one event thought, and we have only seen the twin washers on the flowers photos, not on any other car as yet. Anyway, thanks for all the positive input so far from everyone and for the time people spent with myself, Martin, Paul and Sue at Bingley.

[Pete]

16th is not a particularly good result for Paddy on the 66 flowers, and if so do we know of any mechanical, or accidental issues contributing to this ? .

From what I remember he had overheating issues. Will check that for you, I only have the Autosport report from the rally, Steve (Smoke Grey) has the relevant Motoring News I think which were usually more detailed..