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If going for a 1990s supermini, I'd suggest one of the two that were the most fun to drive while also being robust and reliable. That means the Ford Ka and the Peugeot 106/Citroen Saxo. However, the Ka rusts horribly. The Saxo has a bit of a boy-racer stigma. Which leaves the excellent 106, which is neither girly nor boy-racer.

I bought a 1999 106 1.1 for my daughter unseen on eBay nearly 10 years ago. The seller, who worked in a main dealer, sounded honest and straightforward, the car had been a trade-in, and I took the view that if it wasn't as described then the deal would be off. Actually it was better. My daughter still has it, it has needed nothing other than routine consumables and one new cat, and overall it has been a brilliant purchase.

John

From personal experience I would buy a car that repairs relatively cheaply . Like a fiesta . As some of you know I repair salvage / restore for a living . Boy oh boy did my son take advantage of this . With in a hour and half he wrote of his first car, a fiesta . His second car a Renault Clio lasted 2 weeks . When I say the Renault landed in a tree that's exactly what I mean . It was 6 foot in the air and in a tree . . His next a vauxhall Astra a week later had its entire axle ripped off . When I repaired the vauxhall it took only a month for him to get nicked for drunk driving and ramming a police car off the road . After he had served his time I refused to buy him another car . So mark I would advise letting them save up there hard earned wages for there own car also . My son has since grown up and not had a accident since .

I have to agree a disposable car with some earned wages/savings input is still best as the first one (or two cars) especially for boys as there will be bumps and scrapes (hopefully minor) which can be shrugged off as a lesson learned and repaired as necessary with scrapyard spares or car thrown away without too much financial loss or insurance involvement. Also gives an opportunity for some bonding with offspring showing the 'hands on' satisfaction of working on cars just like in the old days!
In my case the Fiesta ('95 R Reg) was good enough to pass on from elder son to younger son after a couple of years and two more years after that was sold on to a young cousin who took the mileage over 100k before it was sadly written off last winter while parked when a 4x4 lost it on an icy bend and caused enough damage to the stationary Ford to be an uneconomic repair job. Cousins replacement Fiat Punto was newer and cheap to buy but has been no where near as reliable as the old Mk3 Fiesta.
The £99 a month new car options maybe work best for young girls and their parents with little interest in cars who just want safe hassle free transport and a warranty covering everything until trade in time.

While I would not recommend an early R50 Mk1 MINI as a very first car due to their higher running and repair costs even though you can pick them up for £1500 or less now (quite a few unreliable Rover parts like steering pumps and Midland gearboxes)......a good MINI One with service history is still an exciting upgrade small car after the first year or two and when some no claims experience is built up for male or female youngsters especially if there are any signs of becoming a car enthusiast it has all the necessary street cred, is safe and a hoot to drive in the way of all Mini's and has endless cosmetic modification and serious tuning possibilities for any budget......also the strong enthusiast following, MINI forums/clubs and huge number of classic Mini events each year which also cater for the MINI mean even further opportunities for 'bonding' and learning about what all the fuss is about with dad and his old unsafe classic Mini's! Youngest son's MINI One is now lowered, stainless steel big bore exhaust, aftermarket alloys, K&N air filter, Bluefin superchipped and he is saving hard for a MINI Cooper S.........sounds familiar!

4 years ago I brought a nice one owner low mileage '93 Mayfair for my son to learn on. After getting through the learning process and passing his test the car was wrecked when he was getting a jump start from an old chap in a Jag. The Jag owner revved his engine, forgetting the car was in reverse. His car rammed the Mini crushing the boot lid and ramming the front of Mini into a petrol pump. Luckily the Jag owners insurance paid out more than I paid for the Mini. He now drives a diesel Polo as it is better for lugging his guitar and amp about.
Before getting the Mini I considered the Cinq Sporting, 106 Quicksilver and 1990's Polo 1.3. I decided on the Mini as I could not face going to Halfords to buy hideous gear knobs and car mats.

Here's a couple of pics of the old Mayfair, which I did a bit of badge engineering on.

First of all, I refuse to believe that Adam is anywhere near 17 years old. Have you got a secret son Mark?
I promise not to tell Denise.

2nd of all, I'm absolutely flabbergasted that you would reccomend small shit cars to "kids". I'd NEVER put my young daugher in an UP or something equally rubbish. Micra? Come on, do you want your children to die?? ( Or ridiculed? )

Seriously, I'd pay the little extra amount on something that's safe in the real world, never mind the NCAP-bollocks.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-BMW-E39- ... 33894fbf01

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-V70-SE- ... 20dcf6d496

Might be more expensive to run than a 205 or similar, but It doesn't matter, does it?

The UP, Micra, etc are certainly boring small cars not at all in the 'sporting' spirit and fun image of the Mini but surely their can't be that many young daughters who hanker after old but safe and cheap to buy large cars like a 5-Series BMW or a Volvo V70?

mab01uk wrote:The UP, Micra, etc are certainly boring small cars not at all in the 'sporting' spirit and fun image of the Mini but surely their can't be that many young daughters who hanker after old but safe and cheap to buy large cars like a 5-Series BMW or a Volvo V70?

If I was paying I wouldn't really care what they thought of the car.....

mk1 wrote: Thankfully I don't have to put my hand in my pocket for another couple of years yet, but after a conversation over Christmas I was set thinking.

I wondered what you were up to ! (our lads are the same age) but yes we've already had the same conversation and Minis are out on both our parts. What a shame kids can't really buy a cool 2nd hand car like we all did (?) as a first car with our Minis, Escorts, Spitfires, Dolly Sprints etc . Most of their options are pretty bloody naff to say the least due to mega insurance and the idea we're discussing at the moment is that the 'sad' little granny shopping cars that young kids buy nowadays are possibly cool in an ironic way . At least Micras , Polos and Yaris are pretty bullet proof though eh ?

Vegard wrote:
If I was paying I wouldn't really care what they thought of the car.....

They bloody will !

I was talking to my lad about a mega cheap mega low miles Metro minter I found , that conversation lasted about 30 seconds.

My sister has a c1 , good reliable car , she used to bomb up and down the motorways every weekend. Not had any problems with it except for changing the clutch. Good cheap car to run.

I had a ka when I was young. It was ok, the insurance was cheap ish for the first year, But like said above they rust. 8 years old and it need a patch on the sill, it rusted around the fuel flap and rear wiper hole. I was glad to see it go. Oh the top suspension mounts went every 2 years. ( stay clear)

The lad at work has just finished his first year of insurance. Has has one of the black boxes in his car( 52 reg diesel corsa) it knows and detects your speed, braking, acceleration , etc etc. And gives you a traffic light rating.
It also proof, if anything bad happened what speed and time it happened, and it's also like a tracker.
If he speeds he gets a email saying that he need to think about his speed. Too May of them are not good. Bad driving would up his insurance and have some insurance company's decline him insurance.
But it brought his insurance down in his first year compared if he did not have it, his second year dropped a lot more as they know how he drives.

He is a good driver and a care full driver because of it

To me it's something all young or first time drivers should have in there car.

Maybe something to look in to for anyone with a child just about to his driving age. It's also peace of mind for you as you can keep taps on there driving.

Unfortunately the insurance for a 17 year old for anything other than a small, low powered car is horrendous, so to insure a BMW or Volvo would be I'd guess £3k plus.

Even with a couple of years no claims and at 19, a work colleague is paying well over £100 per month to insure a 1.9 TDI Golf.

The street cred thing is nothing new though is it. When I was 17, I had a Mini 1000. College mates had cars such as a Chevette, Datsun 120Y, HB Viva. Best of all, a 1300 Fiesta Supersport, love to find one of them now. Best laugh was another mate, who I now work with, always going on about getting a 2.8 Capri. What did he turn up in.......a maroon Austin 1300. Boy, did he get some stick

As far as reliability is concerned, it's a lottery. Low mileage, granny owned cars, do not mean they'll be more reliable and longer lasting than a higher mileage car. And as for VW's being more reliable than other makes.....well from what I hear from the blokes who own them at work, they are no different to any other make of car nowadays.

I had not heard of the black box type insurance used in practice....until a car hit mine recently while parked in a car park bay and turned out to be driven by a women with 'Insure the Box' (for young and inexperienced drivers), see link below:
http://www.insurethebox.com/

http://www.insurethebox.com/young-drivers-insurance

I've always though that these black box insurances, whilst are in theory a good idea, that they are a bit of a double edged sword.

The adverts are always quick to promote the potential savings with good driving but never mention conversely that you will probably pay more if you break the law.

Its bloody tough for youngsters to legally (i.e. not be insured as a named driver on a policy where a parent is the 'main' driver) insured and the prices quoted are unbelievable. its not surprising though when you look at an average claim especially taking into account the blame culture we live in and people claiming for all and sundry for alleged injuries.

I can remember back in '86 having been hit up the rear end in my Mini by my college lecturer (that caused some laughs afterwards especially when he was lecturing on braking systems) I then hit someone up the arse in my Mk1 Fiesta. The insurance doubled from £250 to just over £500, which for someone on £26.25 per week on a YTS was a fortune. Is that any less pro rata than today ? At that time, I did get a special six month insurance that offered a 1 year no claim discount at the end of the 6 mth period which sort of sped the recovery back up.

Lakeland997 wrote:If the youngster can afford £85 per month then spend your money putting down a £2500 deposit on a new Volkswagen UP.
50 plus MPG, 5 star safety, lowest insurance group possible, three year warranty, three services for £250 great fun to drive.
In my (totally biased) humble opinion it's a true 21st century Mini unlike that bloated thing from BMW.

...good idea and a well built car... I advised my eldest to consider lease/purchase of a Citroen c1.. plenty of room inside for 4 adults, cheap insurance,servicing,running costs,no m o t,s etc... as per above peace of mind motoring for yr nearest and dearest !!!..foxy52

K11 micra Mark are a good bet. The old old shape though 52 plate and prior, cheap to run, cheap to insure etc or if you can stretch to a older shape toyota yaris.. Bomb proof. Neither of them a young lads dream but good serviceable economical little cars.

I'd seriously talk to him about a Morris Minor, or a Suzuki SJ410.

Both can be had cheap. Both teach petrolhead skills (how would greenlaning affect the black box? lol) and both give good fun at lowish speeds.

My first 8 cars were Morris Minors. It was the late 90s, I was in Cornwall, a surfer and Beetles were too expensive and everyone had naff fiestas and metros. Cue me getting a Rose Taupe 68 Minor for £400. The insurance was also £400. It was freedom. I taught myself J turns, Y turns and on a field, handbrake 360s. I remember snapping a halfshaft and after chatting to dad about "getting the garage to fix it", he then bought me a socket set and we went to the scrapyard and I took a shaft out....mot time, I got a £15 arc welder and taught myself to use it......I bumped into a fat book by David Vizard and that's when things took off. My 8th Morris Minor was a 56 Series 2. I think the back axle ratio was 5.3:1. I left that alone. In went a 1293 full face midget engine, complete with twin 1/3/4" carbs (which I got for £50). If I was on a slight bend, it used to smoke it's tyres. Following me crashing it, the engine lived on in an A35. That was very mad as well. RFF776, where are you. Then I got into minis.

Kids have changed, young people have different goals, they aren't interested. Being a petrolhead is like being a steam enthusiast. You are a weirdy beardy if you are a petrolhead. Very uncool.

Have something lame like a saxo, pay the insurance company a fortune, be a good little drone and do what you're told. V8s kill polar bears and if you look at porn, you are objectifying women.

Get him a Morris Minor and I will personally post him my vizard book (I have learned it all)

Edit:- That A35 with it's midget brakes was possibly one of the most mental things I have ever driven. It was utterly off the scale. It handled like a "bubble" and went like a superbike. That was on it's original 5.20 crossplies and looked totally standard.

Pete wrote:

Vegard wrote:
If I was paying I wouldn't really care what they thought of the car.....

They bloody will !

I was talking to my lad about a mega cheap mega low miles Metro minter I found , that conversation lasted about 30 seconds.

I can believe that as that would have been the reaction from mine.......even though the Metro seems to have a small following of youngsters on TMF who think it is a cool car mainly because of the Mini connection......with some of the other cars that have been suggested in this thread (Micra, Yaris, etc) I think many of the male youngsters I know would prefer to get the bus!

It was recently stated in a survey that far less modern youngsters are that bothered about learning to drive and getting a car at 17 as in our day, because their I-Phones, etc were considered more essential and allowed them to communicate with friends socially and play games, etc without the need to travel around in a car......

"Studies in US have found far lower rates of young people applying for driver's licences in this generation of teens than in previous ones. There is correlation between higher rates of internet users and lower rates of driving. The more of life we live online, the less we need to drive. And the more addicted we are to our phones, the more convenient the bus is over driving yourself."
http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/06/05/for- ... t-freedom/

Ralph from hillbillyland (a grade a nutter)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbhGmOJkd0A

My parents had absolutely no input into my first car purchase what so ever, they are well off and could easily afford to buy me something, but it was never even suggested that they would and I didn't even think of asking, almost all my friends were the same. Has something changed that significantly in the last 9 years that now it is expected for parents to buy their children cars?

Anyway, my first car purchase was a 1990 Mini Flame Red. It taught me a lot more about car buying than driving. Never buy the cheapest car you can find with an MOT! It needed so much work that I bought another car, it would be almost 3 years until the mini saw daily use. My second car was an Audi 80 2.8 quattro, bought for £700 which was roughly the same as the last service had cost the previous owner! It was and is a fantastic car, solid and stable at speed, plenty of acceleration to make motorway driving a pleasure. I can't imagine how much more awful my first few years of driving would have been in a Saxo, corsa or a 106. An executive size car with a decent size engine would strongly get my vote if doing any kind of motorway distance as I was. The insurance was a non issue, I paid £800 a year fully comp for my Audi, the mini was around half that so I would recommend a mini if he won't be doing any long trips. I don't know how that compares to prices now though.

When my eldest lad was 17 i brought him a metro, a very good car but he hated it.i used it in the snow when we had it bad afew years ago and it was great,got me everywhere.
My lad then went on to a rover 25, obvioulsy the head gasket did not last long but once fixed it was ok.when that sold he brought a rusty old mini that once welded up he loved it.
So for my second son i went straight in for the rover 25,again once head gasket replaced it went ok and he was kinder happy with the street cred..
They both moved on to hondas and bmws but would both love a mini, i dont yet trust them to drive mine but 1 day.
My daughter is 17 next month, i brought a 1100 recently hoping she would fall in love with it.she didnt.
She wants a little fiat or bmw mini.
I think she will be getting a polo and hate me for it but i do think it daft to pay silly money for something she will use for a year or so.i also believe it will do her no harm to save up and get what she wants.although she will probably drive the cooper s before the boys do.