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Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:42 am
by mk1
Agree with Surf on both counts;
The Cooper being based on the Super is a red herring. The two variants were released simultaneously & if anything the Super was seen as an "entry level" Cooper.
It would also be great to see a gathering of these rare beasts.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:26 am
by FCV.66
The Cooper may or may not have been based on the Super, there is no documented evidence that I am aware of to support this. However, it is interesting to note that Super production started 7th June 1961, a good month before Cooper production started in July.
I think a Beaulieu display of Supers would be excellent. Early in the new year I will attempt to stir up some interest and see what I can organize.
Garry.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:43 am
by mk1
Garry,
They were introduced as the "Cooper & Super" twins though.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:24 am
by Pete
FCV.66 wrote: I think a Beaulieu display of Supers would be excellent. Early in the new year I will attempt to stir up some interest and see what I can organize.
Garry.
Let me know how you get on, I'm sure a space can be provided.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:32 am
by Pete
FCV.66 wrote: it is interesting to note that Super production started 7th June 1961
The very early '61 997 Cooper press cars such as KEL 236 (as it was mocked up) already had most the recognisable bits in place well before Super production, even the two tone ('gay' as Pressnel terms it !
) trim albeit in it's unfinished form that was to be shared with the Super, it's fair to say the two were developed in unison.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:01 pm
by FCV.66
I agree that in all probability the Cooper and Super were developed in unison. But was 'KEL' really a Cooper? Look carefully at those press shots of the car and see that it has been heavily air-brushed. You can actually see the outline of a standard Austin badge on the bonnet. So, was 'KEL' actually a Super after all?!!
Garry.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:11 pm
by mk1
I agree, KEL was definitely a product of the art department, it can be seen with a variety of details on diferent images if you look hard enough.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:38 pm
by AustinSuperSeven
What a great debate... chicken or the egg!
I do hope that Beaulieu will have a little bit of space for us Supers..... we will be 50 together.
I will get both of mine there even if i have to push them all the way
(it might give me a kick up the backside to get them roadworthy!).
Hope you all have a Super Christmas
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:56 pm
by bill773mini
I have an image of KEL with the Austin badge on the bonnet.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:36 pm
by Simon776
KEL was one of the development cars and actually registered as a Morris although I've never seen a Morris grille or badge on it in any pictures.
There are two sets of original untouched KEL pictures from Goodwood. In one set the standard Austin bonnet badge can be seen, in the other lot the standard Austin badge is still in situ but blacked out.
It later acquired a proper Austin badge and grille.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:53 pm
by Pete
I'm running a series of colour photos of the press cars and a beautifully clear colour shot of KEL at Goodwood with it's blacked out Austin badge in the next MCR mag, with some help from the above knowledgable geezer ^
. Save to say yes KEL was in developement at the time (April '61) and looks to have something like an adapted Mk2 Austin A55/Cambridge grille like the lightweight works item used on the '64 Monte.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:03 pm
by LDR209H
Ok whatever,but what is the attraction of owning one apart from rarety ? Yes you too can own a Mk1 that looks like a Cooper but,erm goes like a slug ?
Things are often rare for a reason ....
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:35 pm
by Pandora
'scuse my ignorance, but how similar is a Super to a Cooper?
Is it simply a different front frame assembly - engine / box and discs?
Does the super have the Cooper style grille, the bootboard and brackets etc? or is it just an 850 with the Cooper trim?
did they have a unique chassis number, or did they share it with other 850 saloons?
what was their lifespan?
Al
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:05 pm
by InimiaD
Lifespan was only 13 months. September 1961 to October 1962.
The grille had 10 horizontal slats and 7 vertical bars. Very unique.
They also came with the stainless front window surrounds.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:36 pm
by FCV.66
Pandora, The Super has identical interior, and exterior trim to that of a Cooper, including boot-board and brackets. The difference being all front-end mechanics are standard 850 plus "magic wand" gear lever (chrome) standard badging and standard Austin/Morris grilles with extra chrome embellishments. The chassis numbers were unique in that they had an extra "S" in the prefix, although typical of BMC, some quite genuine Supers do not have this extra digit.
To confuse matters even more, a few genuine Supers were recorded in the ledgers as "Super de luxe"!! This is why some of Heritage certificates applied for by owners show the cars as Super de luxe when they are in fact a Super.
Garry.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:07 pm
by SMOKE GREY
About 10 years ago i found a 'Super' parked at the side of a garage near settle just off the A65. It was red/black, austin, from memory and 100% complete, chrome magic wand etc. Even had it's large digit 'ACE' plates on it. Just how you would want to find one, guy told me his brother had bought it to rebuild an 'S'. Wonder what happened to it
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:16 pm
by LDR209H
brook shaw wrote:suppose same goes other way--??
who cares if the super is sluggish
???
most people who own a 997 cooper trailer em,,drive em round as a pampered pet at 30 mph ,and if they do hammer one in std form,,it will blow up in a short space of time##
maybe im being a bit sarky bout the blowing up bit,but i think most people own a super either cos of its rarity or they want the highest spec,plushest 850 possible..
both cars,the 997 cooper and the super demand equal respect in their own way
just like the sierra xr4 and the cossie were in the 80s ??
just think the cooper has been hailed as collectable for soooooooo long,,while this has saved many a rotten cooper from the breakers,,its let some lovely more humble models slope upto that breakers yard in the sky.
Sorry Brook but they represent to me what is so wrong with the 2010+ society,in other words Style over substance,all fir coat no Knickers (I'm oop narf now so can say it ),Sheep in wolf clothing etc GIRLS CAR.
If you want to talk '80's comparison I remember all those farty 205's with bodykits made to look like 1.9 GTi's or Rally cars with a 1000 under the bonnet or a 950cc Fiesta XR2 lookalike.
Obviously you pays yer money etc but it doesn't do it for me. As i mentioned before they were a flop when they were new hence the 1 year lifespan,just means they're even rarer now. Each to their own.
surely the 850 is nowadays just as worthy of saving as the cooper and s?
just a shame the majority of the supers were turned into coopers in the 70s and later in the 80s as logbook recreations of many a cooper s
the only good thing about this is it turned the super into a rare sight in current times
apart from the long term knowledgable mini fans,joe average at the mini show with his /her "club mini" probably a city with cooper bits,(as usual) has never seen or know what a super is!
even a certain person from gaydon calls the super a super deluxe on a heitage certificate,along with good old bmc in the combined austin/morris parts book from the 60s!!
oh dear,,ive wrote too much- time to shut up,lol
Sorry Brook but they represent to me what is so wrong with the 2010+ society,in other words Style over substance,all fir coat no Knickers (I'm oop narf now so can say it ),Sheep in wolf clothing etc GIRLS CAR.
If you want to talk '80's comparison I remember all those farty 205's with bodykits made to look like 1.9 GTi's or Rally cars with a 1000 under the bonnet or a 950cc Fiesta XR2 lookalike.
Obviously you pays yer money etc but it doesn't do it for me. As i mentioned before they were a flop when they were new hence the 1 year lifespan,just means they're even rarer now. Each to their own.
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:32 pm
by Pete
LDR209H wrote: Sorry Brook but they represent to me what is so wrong with the 2010+ society,in other words Style over substance,all fir coat no Knickers (I'm oop narf now so can say it ),Sheep in wolf clothing etc GIRLS CAR.
If you want to talk '80's comparison I remember all those farty 205's with bodykits made to look like 1.9 GTi's or Rally cars with a 1000 under the bonnet or a 950cc Fiesta XR2 lookalike.
Obviously you pays yer money etc but it doesn't do it for me. As i mentioned before they were a flop when they were new hence the 1 year lifespan,just means they're even rarer now. Each to their own.
I don't follow that argument at all. Supers weren't marketed as anything other than a better appointed Mk1 850, not a go faster stripe in sight and bearing in mind how basic the Mk1 was at the time it made perfect sense. The reason they didn't sell/last was the 997 Cooper itself not being THAT much more expensive so in that respect you could say it was doomed from the off or in fact a marketting excercise for the Cooper.
As for the 80's comparisons, I doubt there a forum user out there who in his youth didn't do just as you describe to 'Barry' his first car up to look /faster than it was, can't see a comparision to the Super at all.
Don't really get the 2010+ society bit though yes the media drives the masses to worship the inane, can't see a connection to a well appointed classic car, though if you criticise the Super for being a sheep in wolf's clothing (??) I reckon the 970 Cooper S may be next in line for a kickin !
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:06 pm
by LDR209H
So why haven't you got one then Pete ?
Re: mini supers-the rarest mass produced mini variant ??
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:22 pm
by Pete
Too slow !
I'm kiddin !
Who's to say I haven't.
Actually with a 1071 S jigsaw puzzle, my Surf Blue 850 , go faster Hornet and go slower Camper I wouldn't have room. The other appeal of the Super apart from being unusual is the somewhat lower chance of one being a complete fake !
