mk1-forum.net

I think we have got to the bottom of this particular issue.

To summarise;

If you are having to use easistart on an engine regularly the engine has an underlying issue that should be fixed first, if you don't you may come to believe that your engine has become "addicted" to easistart, where as in actual fact it's just knackered.

If you try to run a petrol engine for any length of time on ether out of a can, bore washing can become a serious issue as is pre ignition.

Easistart can in some cases be a invaluable tool to get a recalcitrant engine to start under some circumstances, if used in line with the instructions.

It also smells great

M

mk1 wrote:I think we have got to the bottom of this particular issue.
you may come to believe that your engine has become "addicted" to easistart, where as in actual fact it's just knackered.

or is the truth closer to

mk1 wrote: It also smells great

M

The user becoming addicted?

Ah, ha!

mk1 wrote:

Gotya - busted I'd say

Even my missus loves it when the mower won't start "let me spray it" she used to demand, until I went over to using degreaser and even one of the cheap WD sprays.

I think like fast cars, fast women, beer and tellly, in moderation this stuff is OK to use.

My wife doesn't like the smell, she always complains if I come to bed smelling of it, so I have to sniff it in secret.

Its really good for cleaning parts too.

Tim

@Tim "My wife doesn't like the smell, she always complains if I come to bed smelling of it, so I have to sniff it in secret."

HAHA! This thread is making me laugh, it's title should be renamed to 'ESA' (Easi-Starts Anonymous) The first step is admitting you have a problem...

I have to say, I do find myself lingering around near unleaded petrol being poured for longer periods of time than necessary!

I don't have a problem - except when I really need some of the stuff to start an engine and I find the can empty...

There is something I like the smell of even better. The smell of hot gasket cement (old fashioned "aviation form-a-gasket") curing on a brand new engine. The smell is best enjoyed in the early hours of the morning after finally getting everything installed and taking an illicit test run around the neighbourhood. Magic!

Tim

Tim, I hope to have not insulted you - that certainly wasn't my intention...

That smell of hot gasket cement that you describe is something that I am unfamiliar with, however, illicit late-night test runs around the neighbourhood (oh yes!)

Just spent hours trying to start my old, well not so old actually (51plate) Renault Espace dci, eventually resorted to brake cleaner into the airbox inlet because I have no easy start.

It ran until the brake cleaner ran out, then after much dismantling etc. found out there was no high pressure fuel output so decided to see if a more prolonged run on 'alternative' fuel would coax the pump back into life....it ran flawlessly for about 5 minutes until the pump spray can, once full, expired.
Tried the high pressure pump outlet again ...no fuel.

After a quick calculation I figured out a way to attach the spray can to the intake and trigger it with a piece of string through the window.....then as a rough guide I reckoned it would do about 3 miles down the lane at a cost of approximately 52p per mile or if you prefer, just a bit less than treasury juice with all of the taxes added.

Not too sure of the effect on the environment though and suspect loud knocking noise from engine means a call to the breakers yard is imminent.

trevorhp wrote: Renault Espace dci,

trev, didn't you know that the dci stood for 'direct can injection'

chichestermini wrote:Tim, I hope to have not insulted you - that certainly wasn't my intention...

No not at all.

Tim

Rich
I always wondered..... but assumed it was french for cra* or something similar....no mystery now

I can see that there are a whole lot of myths around regarding a lot of things.

Easy to ignite = lower potential energy. No. Separate things. Compare to wood, petrol 46.4 MJ/kg, wood 18 MJ/kg
Lower potential energy = lower octane rating. No.
Octane rating is a comparison of fuels in a test engine to 8-carbon hydrocarbon fuel. It doesn't really indicate specific energy, just pressure and temperature necessary for spontaneous combustion. Test engines are cheated with fuel additives. Again this has nothing to do with the energy content of the fuel.

I could go on but it's really pointless. The main reason ether helps start a cold engine is because it's in vapor form.
Liquid fuel doesn't burn at all. It MUST be in vapor form to combine with oxygen and even then must be in a proper enough ratio to burn.

The reason for a choke in a car is to add more fuel. So the question comes, why is more fuel better in a cold engine. This is because fuel is composed of more than 180 different type hydrocarbon chains. The average of which, compared to 8-carbon "octane" gives the "octane rating". Some of these chains are actually vaporous at room temperature and pressure. Most are not. This is why fuel smells.* Point is that the engine needs enough vaporous fuel to start a cold engine and that is obtained by giving the engine more fuel. As the engine warms up, more of the fuel is vaporized between the time of ingestion and combustion, reducing the need for the choke.

Then the cool part. A car that has been sitting for a long time has "old gas". The vaporous parts have vaporized. The fuel doesn't provide enough vaporous hydrocarbons to attain combustible fuel ratio (14.7:1 air/fuel by mass). This is exactly what ether does. It is nearly vaporous at room temperature and pressure and is certainly vapor under the temperature of 6 or more bar cylinder pressure.

"Washing" of the cylinder could be a problem. This would assume excessive amounts of ether are used, the cylinder is cooled enough that the ether is liquid on the cylinder walls and there is enough of it to wash the oil away. Doubtful, but possible. I've never heard of flooding with ether, but I suppose someone could do it.

Pre-ignition comes from "compression combustion" much like a diesel engine. A warm engine under acceleration power could do this. A cold engine will not. Compression combustion happens when the fuel temperature exceeds its ignition temperature, under the influence of pressure of the compression. Not a problem under starting conditions of a cold engine. A possible problem during acceleration of a warm engine.

I hope I could clarify some things without stepping on anyone's toes. Forgive me if I did. And I'm sorry if I am so serious on such a fun forum. It's just that I work with diesel engine research (MAN Diesel) and my Masters thesis was in exactly the field of fuel vaporization during ingestion.

Donn

*Fuel doesn't actually smell. We smell, with our nose. Fuel emits smell.

WOW !!! Thanks for the wonderful explanation
Now I know exactly why my Direct Can Injection (© Rich) system caused my Espace to go BANG a lot ! and it certainly emitted a smell

Thanks for that excellent clear explanation Donn,

We want to keep it fun, but be correct too.

Insightful input is always most welcome indeed!

M