mk1-forum.net

Take look at this about the oilcap.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vortz-Rac ... 8111277259

Yes, but it still has no connection to Downton. Looks like you can stick the Downton logo on anything and suddenly it's an international talking point !

Pete wrote:Yes, but it still has no connection to Downton. Looks like you can stick the Downton logo on anything and suddenly it's an international talking point !

http://www.downton.co.uk/

Elvaston Mews Downton London rocker cover nothing to fancy apart from the breather

http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.u ... _ely_5.jpg

1ely wrote:Elvaston Mews Downton London rocker cover nothing to fancy apart from the breather

http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.u ... _ely_5.jpg

Yours was pretty early doors though Francis, pre most of the alloy jobbies.

guru_1071 wrote:

Pete wrote:Yes, but it still has no connection to Downton. Looks like you can stick the Downton logo on anything and suddenly it's an international talking point !

http://www.downton.co.uk/

Yeah, yeah, been there, done that, bought the T-shirt

http://www.ragingbull.co.uk/Images/Uplo ... -bull2.jpg

Pete wrote:Yes, but it still has no connection to Downton. Looks like you can stick the Downton logo on anything and suddenly it's an international talking point !

As Pete says its nothing to do with the original Downton, I put the picture up on Nicks FB page as it looked like the logo I knew he had used on his 80's/90's Downton cars / parts, he confirmed it was one of his, at least you know if you buy it (and there would be no way I would pay what it was listed at let alone what its at now) where it came from and that it would be a quality item. Nick's parts were (are) always very well thought out and made original Vortz, unlike some of the other parts from certain people who set out to, how shall I put it politley......pull the wool over the buyers eyes

HALLELUJAH, we finally understand what Vortz was about thanks to mk1coopers. The Vortz cars used the Downton name only as a model type, just as Ford used Shelby, Vauxhall used Brabham, and, do anybody remember a little car called the Mini Cooper ??, BMC used a brand some of you may remember, 'COOPER', yes, John Cooper did not make the Mini Cooper either, BMC did that with permission to do some badge engineering. Vortz did NOT present itself as Downton, they as other car manufacturers paid tribute to famous names in there extended model range and produced a car that represented that mark, just like BMC and Cooper. Vortz would have been horrified to think the public were not giving credit to them for Downton models, to connect them with other users of the brand who would claim Danial Richmond's history bloodline is to disgusting for words. Vortz was a very honourable and moral company that produced some extremely fine cars.
Getting back to the cap for a moment, you have to view this cap as one taken from a Lotus Cortina, or Shelby Cobra, it has its own value, and no, it's not mine.
12g940

Just to comment on the cap for a moment.

It's now up to £155 are people INSANE?

You can buy a new 2" Monza cap for £33 and get it engraved at any engravers for about 10p per letter.

Why would anyone be dumb enough to pay over £150 for a second hand one?

Mark F

PS. If anyone wants a 2" Monza Cap with Downton engraved on it, I can do them as a very special deal to forum members for just £99.99 each.

Missing the point a bit I think, this cap does have a bloodline, whether it's to your taste or not, and Vortz is nearly as old as Downton as well, and worked in the same arena as them, had the same customers and at the same time, in the 1960's and 70's.

As far as I am concerned it is just a Monza Cap with Downton engraved on it.

You make an interesting point about the "Vortz" heritage itself, but regardless of the quality & thought that went into these products when they were made, as far as I am concerned it was just another company cashing in on the original "Downton" brand. No more no less.

I believe that to some extent Vortz were credited with the re animation of the Cooper brand in the late 80's early 90's, but this was only after he had received a pretty stiff letter from John Coopers solicitors for using the "Cooper" name without permission.

I know that Vortz have always had a brilliant reputation for the stuff they produce when you are considered worthy of being able to place an order, but to my mind, the fact remains that if they / he was as confident in his own brand as he was in such Names as Cooper & Downton he would not have felt the need to emblazon his cars with them in the first place.

Finally, getting back to the cap, I wonder if the eventual owner will proudly tell everyone that the cap on his car is a Vortz "original". I some how doubt it.

My point was, was not BMC cashing in on the original 'COOPER' brand ?
12G940

This is getting just slightly silly.

BMC paid John Cooper for his name to be put on the front and back of a car that was his idea to start with. They didn't just take it without permission and use it on their own product.

I completely agree with Mark here that if Vortz were so confident about their own products/engineering why didn't they just use their own name ? The answer is that they , as many others have since with other famous 60's names, just wanted to cash in on someone else's reputation without their permission nor association. simples ! I personally don't care either way but let's not pretend it's anything else.

12G940 wrote: BMC did that with permission to do some badge engineering.

Are you seriously trying to say the difference between the humble Mini 850 and the Coopers and S's was badge engineering ?? I think you'll find there was slightly more to it .

12G940 wrote: Vortz was a very honourable and moral company that produced some extremely fine cars

At no point during this discussion (now known as "petrol capgate ) has anyone implied the opposite, you seem to be very defensive about the reputation of a company nobody seems to be actually criticising. Right I'm off to iron my Speedwell underpants.

I personally don't care either way but let's not pretend it's anything else.

DITTO.

M

Pete wrote: Speedwell underpants.

how dare you use the speedwell words on a none speedwell product, im offended

I'm sure I am right in saying that Pete is the only owner of a pair of Speedwell Underpants in the world

Might be a good idea to stick them on ebay mate.

I think you may find that well used undercarriage apparel is probably on their list of banned items !

For good reason.

You mean slightly soiled Speedwell Underpants fall into the same category as offensive weapons, hum, I see your point