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Polarsilver wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:50 pm Costa. just as a balance to your comments re; Copper Slip on Wheel Studs & Nuts. . just saying that during my 1960,s engineering training in mechanical engineering & thereafter during my 60 odd years since using bolt torque this was part of my working life especially in construction & use of very large Cranes.. i have been using Copperslip on most anything with a thread or gasket includes exhaust manifolds & joints can say that never has Cooper Slip been a issue or problem .

Every car mnfr I worked for - so BL, Alfa, BMW, VW state that any kind of lube on wheel nut and bolt tapers is absolutely verboten. Put some of that stuff on the threads if you must
The average wheel bolt is torqued to around 110 nm and being a taper, relies on friction. In the same vein, you don't put copper grease on a Mini crank tail when fitting the flywheel......

As for caliper bolts, I've never felt the need to deviate from what the mnfr fitted at the factory. An Ebay seller of stainless stuff can claim whatever they like however.

Costafortune wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:05 pm

Polarsilver wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:50 pm Costa. just as a balance to your comments re; Copper Slip on Wheel Studs & Nuts. . just saying that during my 1960,s engineering training in mechanical engineering & thereafter during my 60 odd years since using bolt torque this was part of my working life especially in construction & use of very large Cranes.. i have been using Copperslip on most anything with a thread or gasket includes exhaust manifolds & joints can say that never has Cooper Slip been a issue or problem .

Every car mnfr I worked for - so BL, Alfa, BMW, VW state that any kind of lube on wheel nut and bolt tapers is absolutely verboten. Put some of that stuff on the threads if you must
The average wheel bolt is torqued to around 110 nm and being a taper, relies on friction. In the same vein, you don't put copper grease on a Mini crank tail when fitting the flywheel......

As for caliper bolts, I've never felt the need to deviate from what the mnfr fitted at the factory. An Ebay seller of stainless stuff can claim whatever they like however.

I may emphasise that the use of copper slip or so on wheel threads is perfectly okay. You just have to re-calculate the tigthtening torque if the manufacturer's torque figure was intended for dry assembly. Quite obviously, if you reduce thread and flange surface friction with a lubricant, the now surplus torque goes into clamping force, usually overwhelming the threads - long or short term.
But then, I don't mind what people do if it doesn't affect me - whatever floats your boat.

A lot of the wheels I take off the nuts/studs are often rusted in because they have never had any protection on them, after wire wheeling them I've always added a bit of copper slip or similar, other wise the customer will have zero chance of removing the wheel at the side of the road once it's rusted in again. Only wheel I've seen come loose was not tightened up properly in the first place.
Working on brand new cars this isn't an issue, it's when it's done loads of miles and seen a few winters that's it becomes a problem.

Agree with Nick on this one. I always apply a bit of light oil to the wheel studs so they are less likely to sieze on. Not had a problem in 39 years of driving so far …

When assembling stainless fasteners always use copper slip because once they’ve bound up you’ve very little chance of getting them apart !

A bit of grease on the actual threads is alright I guess, just never, ever on the taper. The taper is where the tightening torque goes, not the threads. That's the difference between standard and taper seat spark plugs as well.

Because I maintain my cars, I never have wheel bolts seizing in.

........ the torque - or turning moments - ARE taken on the threads but transmitted to the driven wheels, surely.

Whatever.

Some folk are smarter than the guys who designed the cars.

I'll stick with what the manufacturer says.

We seem to overthink these things, surely it is best to stick with proven original items and specifications ?

Also zero chance of removing a wheel at the side of the road with the leverage a standard wheel brace once some garages/tyre shops have used their air tools with too high torque setting on the wheel nuts/bolts. The other common problem is once the nuts/bolts are removed the alloy rim has often corroded onto the hub and then trying to bash it off with the car on the wobbly factory jack...not that many modern cars come with a spare wheel or jack/wheel brace anymore or an owner who knows how to change a wheel, even if strong enough to lift it!

My preferred anti size:

https://www.tefgel.com.au/

mab01uk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:54 pm Also zero chance of removing a wheel at the side of the road with the leverage a standard wheel brace once some garages/tyre shops have used their air tools with too high torque setting on the wheel nuts/bolts. The other common problem is once the nuts/bolts are removed the alloy rim has often corroded onto the hub and then trying to bash it off with the car on the wobbly factory jack...not that many modern cars come with a spare wheel or jack/wheel brace anymore or an owner who knows how to change a wheel, even if strong enough to lift it!

I always copper slip the nose of the hub so the alloy wheels don't corrode on. Also do the bolts up using the spare wheel brace 'by feel' rather than torquing up. That way I know I can undo them at the roadside !!

Recently had to undo some wheel bolts on the step brothers car that had been done at a tyre centre ... Jesus they were F***ing tight. Ended up with a 3/4" drive breaker bar and a pole to undo some of them !!!

Exactly my point, and the bolts will surely be stretched when they need that much leverage to undo them.

That is possible but they seemed OK and I did torque them up properly as it wasn't my car.

Worst ones to undo were the locking wheel bolts. Ended up mullering them to get them off. Bloody animals

Copper Slip .. use it on exhaust manifold gaskets smear Copper slip on both sides of the gasket it helps the seal & the manifold gasket will then never stick.. also to coat the manifold stud threads .. Copper Slip is very good stuff .. years later on you will still see the copper slip residue when your exhaust manifold is removed.

We always had customers bringing their cars in saying " it won't need much as it's been dealer serviced from new, just needs it's first MOT ". Always had to get the "big hammer" out to bounce the tyres and shock the alloys from the hubs. Clearly a quick look through the wheels to see how much meat was on the outer pad was deemed sufficient by the dealers, wheels were never removed. Never mind, as long as the book was stamped up they were happy !!. So after a proper brake service and wire brushing hub and wheel, copious amounts of coppaslip on both meant an easier service next time.

While I'm not adverse at all to putting something on threads to stop corrosion, I don't put it on wheel nuts but only because I don't want the threads, particularly in the nuts, having dirt stick to them when removed, I'm not always taking them off in the workshop. I'll add though, it is something I agonise over and would rather do if it weren't for this issue.

Andrew1967 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:14 pm Also do the bolts up using the spare wheel brace 'by feel' rather than torquing up. That way I know I can undo them at the roadside !!

Many years back I had some tyres fitted in by a shop, I watched as the lad Uga-dugered up the wheel nuts, when he was finished he came over to ask me for payment, I gave him the car's wheel brace and asked him if he could humor me, and check if the wheel nuts could be undone,,,,he uga-duggered them back off and did them up with a wheel brace - lazy sod,,,,

Same happened to my wife at the roadside in Oxford in her then Golf. Nuts done up by the tyre fitter, as tight a jumbo jet wheel-nuts. Pissed off or what..... I had to go out and do the job. In the pouring rain too. Length of scaffold pole and pry-bar job

The icing on the cake are the tyre fitters and mechanics who first bang the nut on with the impact wrench. And then check the F'ing overtightened fasteners with the torque wrench set to the common "fits all 100Nm" (75ft lb that is)