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May I alter the emphasis of this thread regarding dazzle.
The low sun in winter is as we know very bright and creates a "black spot" in the shadows when driving towards it and may conceal oncoming "dangers", nothing to do with eye sight performance (IMO) but a serious HAZARD for drivers due to lack of vision for all; just like the vision performance at dusk.
I think the Scandinavians were the first to use "running headlights" at all times so many years ago. Perhaps we should do the same as it is not just darkness that we need to be aware of the dangers of "low visibility."
Despite my age I have been very, very fortunate to have maintained my 24hr vision performance.
Sadly, I cannot read an OS map at night in a rapid ^^^^ Mini without suitable lighting levels and a Potti. (or Potty!)

Front DRLs (Daytime Running Lights) with no rear light activation on some modern cars was not very well thought out, as a combination of very bright front DRL's and a dashboard always lit by LEDs confuses some drivers to be unaware they have no rear lights on in the dark.....often because they or their local garage has switched off the Auto-Light setting during a service or MOT....

mab01uk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:34 pm Front DRLs (Daytime Running Lights) with no rear light activation on some modern cars was not very well thought out, as a combination of very bright front DRL's and a dashboard always lit by LEDs confuses some drivers to be unaware they have no rear lights on in the dark.....often because they or their local garage has switched off the Auto-Light setting during a service or MOT....

'Funny' you bring this up. That happened to me recently with a hire car, I drove some on way the DRLs as I found them well bright enough to light up the road. I just though the car had automatic headlights. I think it was when I fund the instruments rather dull that I twigged.

Did the Volvo's in the 70's just show in daylight white light at the front as the DLR's now

Are LED headlights even 'necessary' ?

Even though my old eyes don't respond too well when being burnt out by on coming LED Headlights, especially those retro fitted in to 4WDs, they do seem to cope quite well seeing the road and wildlife when sitting in the driver's seat moving forward with only H4's for illumination.

Ronnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:47 pm Did the Volvo's in the 70's just show in daylight white light at the front as the DLR's now

No. The old Volvos, much more sensibly had front AND rear lights come on - although we all thought it was weird and over the top at the time. One of our modern cars has those bright daytime running lights on the front only and although I'm used to it and remember to turn on the normal lights as it becomes darker, other members of the family who borrow it don't always
The result being that it is driven around with no rear lights showing. I have on occasion followed other cars with no rear lights - particularly dangerous in a rural area where it can be properly dark and with dirty roads and dirty cars, often there are no functioning reflectors or reflective number plates to show up either! It is a really dumb oversight by manufacturers.

Ronnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:47 pm Did the Volvo's in the 70's just show in daylight white light at the front as the DLR's now

I thought the Volvos of the time used their headlights not running lights. ?

hanlminiman wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:24 am

Ronnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:47 pm Did the Volvo's in the 70's just show in daylight white light at the front as the DLR's now

I thought the Volvos of the time used their headlights not running lights. ?

I think they just used side lights, because I wired my Mk3 for side lights only, and was surprised when the modern led DLR were only showing at the front, bad idea I think as stated above by Old English White.

Yes, it was basically the sidelights that the Volvos used front and rear. It wasn't the headlights
They must have been reasonably bright bulbs though because they certainly showed up.

Given that people don’t take their eyes off their phones or in car touchscreens for anything less than an suv with DRL’s, who has fitted DRL’s to their minis?

I’ve put led sidelights in mine but I am looking into adding a DRL circuit and a super bright sidelight bulb which comes on with the ignition switch.

Too often people just don’t see a Mini.

Ronnie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:39 am

hanlminiman wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:24 am

Ronnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:47 pm Did the Volvo's in the 70's just show in daylight white light at the front as the DLR's now

I thought the Volvos of the time used their headlights not running lights. ?

I think they just used side lights, because I wired my Mk3 for side lights only, and was surprised when the modern led DLR were only showing at the front, bad idea I think as stated above by Old English White.

Thank you Ronnie. I was confusing the need in Scandanvian countries to use headlights due to dark forest roads and very big elks appearing from nowhere. See and be seen. Not big Oiks who rely on the auto lamp settings in their modern cars which might possibly include auto dip facility.
Cliff

gs.davies wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:28 pm Given that people don’t take their eyes off their phones or in car touchscreens for anything less than an suv with DRL’s, who has fitted DRL’s to their minis?

I’ve put led sidelights in mine but I am looking into adding a DRL circuit and a super bright sidelight bulb which comes on with the ignition switch.

Too often people just don’t see a Mini.

Quite a neat idea I saw described on TMF for adding DRLs to a classic Mini without adding more lights to the front was by converting the existing front indicators to a dual filament bulb holder (eg. Land-Rover tail lights) and fitting clear lenses. Then fitting some 'Switchback' led bulbs with 1157 bases that have both amber and white light. They have inbuilt circuitry so that when the indicators are switched on, the DRLs go off.
The DRL's are wired into an ignition live and set up so a simple relay switches them off when the headlight are turned on. Negative Earth or Positive Earth. Also need to fit an LED suitable electronic flasher/hazard unit.
https://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/t ... ng-lights/

What Are 1157 Switchback LED Lights?
"These lights allow side lights and indicators all in one fitting. When the side lights are on they are white but when indicating the white light goes out and they flash orange then back to white when finished indicating."
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collec ... switchback

Dual Color Switchback LED DRL/Indicators:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QWpFmLlf_Y

Old English White wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 11:03 am Yes, it was basically the sidelights that the Volvos used front and rear. It wasn't the headlights
They must have been reasonably bright bulbs though because they certainly showed up.

Funny you should mention volvo headlights i always remember my boss at the time back in the early 80's
disabled brother in law had a volvo 343 one with the Daf transmission
That car's headlights at the time were simply brilliant it you could see much further on main beam than any other car of it's time.

Whatever happened to dim dip ?. I remember that being a big thing in the 80s.

The dim don't dip

My pet peeve as well as bright lamps on stupid senseless shite SUVs is blown bulbs in all types of cars, but then we generally don’t have traffic bobbies anymore, grhhhh So when out at night in my daily driver I just melt them on high beams with the full force of my magical LEDs! Hopefully they crash, write car off, end of problem ish

Jasonking wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:51 pm So when out at night in my daily driver I just melt them on high beams with the full force of my magical LEDs! Hopefully they crash, write car off, end of problem ish

I cannot believe you have this opinion. Is it me?
I suggest that all drivers should react to the road conditions at the time. If in doubt, yield and give way. On 4 or 2 wheels, foot or horse.
We all have right to be on the roads.

hanlminiman wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:22 pm We all have right to be on the roads.

No we don't. Only cyclists in Lycra have that.

……..cyclists definitely have priority, scenario: two cyclists, cycling two a breast on a country lane - impossible to give 1.5 M clearance between them and the car…….but they are in the right ?

This seems to be how some cyclists are reading it…..especially the old skinny ones, in Lycra with beards….

Please don't turn this into a cyclist hating post, there's plenty of that shite elsewhere on the web.
I am constantly passed very dangerously on my bike by arrogant, ignorant a-holes with this opinion and I'm sick and tired of it. You should try cycling yourselves sometime and see how you like it, maybe then your opinion might change.
There are plenty of dicks on bikes but not as many as those on four wheels.