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My goodness !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I have read bits and pieces of your threads as it just sounded like one huge and unnecessary mess. Now I read this and shake my head.

I have to ask the question - how did you piss them off ??

Your remedy (weld up the hole) and their rejection of it flies in the face of thousand of car repair workshop practices across the UK, let alone the rest of the world. What if you fitted a new BMH Boot Floor ? On what grounds would the find / invent to knock that back ?

I'm just shaking my head here,,,, a new Government stupidity level,,,,,

mk1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:31 pm Hum, I think we need to keep some level of perspective.

Comparing a slightly incompetent & undoubtedly stubborn DVLA to one of the most restrictive & intrusive surveillance states in the world is pushing it a bit!

Am I reading this correctly?

Hagerty - It seems there has been material removed from the monocoque/body shell by means of drilling… it is not possible to confirm that the structure of this vehicle is as per the manufacturer first intended,” wrote the DVLA.

If holes are drilled to fit driving lights, a radio aerial or a fire extinguisher the vehicle becomes "unroadworthy" in the eyes of DVLA and so cannot automatically retain it's existing registration status and plate number?

If so, how does that affect all the Works cars, for example, that have holes drilled all over the place? Do they need to forfeit their existing registration and apply again, with the likely result being a Q plate?

I thought the same as Spider did. This would mean all rust or accident repairs are forbidden?

Here in Switzerland there are directives how a chassis has to be repaired or modified. If you hold up this directives you can do a lot of things.

It will then inspected at the MOT.

I only fit a Towbar last week to my Renault and had to drill two 12mm holes to fix it. Imagin i would life in GB...

Don't you Guys have an Administrive Appeals tribunal ...or something similar??

My Daughter makes a very nice living representing the Minister (Ministers various actually) when one of their minions makes a decision affecting a citizen and said citizen goes to court seeking "natural justice".... ie a reversal or modification of the decision they're objecting to....

The Tribunal members are not (necessarily) lawyers but eminent citizens appointed by the Government to review administrative decisions made by the Government.

Before making an appeal to the tribunal one would go to the Ombudsman... another official appointed by the government who's job it is the examine complaints bought by the public against decisions made by Government entities... with the power to engage

Reading the report on Hagerties website puts the DVLA decision in a much more ridiculous light than Bitsilly's comments.....

Cheers, Ian

Truly staggering, so sorry to hear this but at least you have closure….

This is complete madness as we all know, how are the DVLA able to do this, is there a an engineering report to support their decision, I suspect not.

Their real motivation, I think, is that they dont want to be responsible, by proxy, for the general public converting cars to electric, with all the safety issues concerning high voltages and metal bodied cars….

Ok, parking the above, this ruling would mean, if not challenged, that the DVLA have cart blanche to remove a car from the road, for an aerial hole, wing mirror hole, seat belt hole, actually what ever they choose……..

Is there any engineering data on this? size of hole, position , what size is unacceptable, what position is unacceptable….? Etc…..I suspect not….

Unfortunately, as DVLA have the power to remove cars at will or as it suits ( in this case) they will carry on doing so until some one has the means or motivation to challenge them in court for clarification…

There is something very wrong when a government department can make up it own law on the hoof…..to suit its own purposes, this is not a healthy proposition in any country, this is why we have laws.

I really feel for you in this Ed, it is so bloody unjust…..and unfounded

EDIT Sorry its a bit if a rant…….

As mentioned in various posts above the DVLA are not stating a constructive (engineering wise) reason to you for their decision e.g. size of hole, method of forming, position on the monocoque etc They are not qualified, and should not be allowed to just carte blanche refuse without stating the valid engineering reasons, or principles behind their decision making. Take it back through your MP they can not be allowed to succeed in doing this.

This won't prevent anyone drilling holes anywhere at all as you will never need to approach the dvla unless you are changing the classification of the vehicle as far as I can see. Why would they ever find out you had drilled holes for spotlights, would you volunteer to tell them ?, ofcourse not. I therefore don't agree with all of the scepticism around that this is as draconian as it is made out. In all of the years I've been involved with cars I've only had to "use" dvla once to have my ado16 keep its original reg after dropping off their system thirty years ago so they sent an inspector to make sure it was the same car. They have always had a system to "control" major changes, it's just unfortunate in this case that what they are saying is complete nonsense.

Just a litlle but important correction Exminiman and others. The DVLA and those other SEMI departmental government offshoots ending in A for Authority (such as the Highways Authority or the LA. Agency are NOT government departments. They are simple (?) acting as agents of the Government. In other words, they are semi autonomous QUANGOs.

Doesn't alter the facts of course. But they CAN be beaten and overturned, but alas, ONLY if they relent OR by the order of the Courts.

Let me tell you another thing....., not (?) relevant to our case in particular. But if (and it's a BIG if) they do relent and overturn their own former decision, then you can go and whistle for any costs incurred. They will tell you that only the COURTS can order costs. As they did in the case of the victorious Mk2 Lotus Cortina owner.

That's todays rant over and I feel better for it........

The only plan at the moment is continue with the Information Commissioner to try and get the DVLA inspection report (which recommended retention of the original number plate).
Then my MP will use it as ammunition for another letter. I will then also ask him to sign off a complaint to the ombudsman.

The petition I started rocketed to around 300 signatures thanks to you lot, but the wording after 3 submission refusals was watered down so as to not upset anyone, so it is a bit lame and has to be sought out by interested parties. It has fizzled out.

I will continue to try and spread the word because if they get away with this they can use their ‘success’ to pick on any car they have any reason to dislike with implications for racers, rodders, and any car they want to remove from the road for any other reason (I’m pretty sure they will be able to find a hole somewhere and then it is up to the owner to prove that they did not drill it).

Until this is sorted I will never take a car to a show of any kind because you never know who might be there with a camera and a chip on their shoulder.

Sorry to go on but finally I need to say that as a result of my posting information on various interest sites I have been contacted by lots of professional and private individuals owning cars as diverse as Land Rovers to Spitfires who have fallen victim to the drilled hole problem.
Life is too short to worry about something that chances are will never happen to you, but just be careful out there!

Bitsilly wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:23 pm Until l this is sorted I will never take a car to a show of any kind because you never know who might be there with a camera and a chip on their shoulder.

Not thought of that…..could make Bewlieeeee interesting

Sadly, there are lots of bodgers out there. Badly converted EV's that catch fire built by clowns who have little professional pride but lots of ideas. I suspect the gov't want to stamp out all DIY EV's.

This guy is a prime example - bodging Tesla bits into shit old BMW's that catch fire....and when that battery goes up...BOOOM!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CkW9yW2yOg&t=6s

Sadly, the red Mini has fallen victim to this understandable mentality.

Exminiman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:34 pm

Bitsilly wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:23 pm Until l this is sorted I will never take a car to a show of any kind because you never know who might be there with a camera and a chip on their shoulder.

Not thought of that…..could make Bewlieeeee interesting

I doubt very much they will be sending the "hole police" out anytime soon. I really think this is being blown out of proportion a bit.

Costafortune wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:26 pm Sadly, there are lots of bodgers out there. Badly converted EV's that catch fire built by clowns who have little professional pride but lots of ideas. I suspect the gov't want to stamp out all DIY EV's.

This guy is a prime example - bodging Tesla bits into shit old BMW's that catch fire....and when that battery goes up...BOOOM!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CkW9yW2yOg&t=6s

Sadly, the red Mini has fallen victim to this understandable mentality.

I think that this is probably the REAL reason and the inherent fatal consequences that could arise from a poorly executed conversion. Who will have the correct paperwork AND be prepared to sign off a classic conversion that someone else has done. It would be them at risk of prosecution in the case of injury or fatality proven to be caused by the conversion.

Its a real shame to say the least that some very well done conversions like yours, will be lumped into the same category.

I suspect that the drilled holes is a VERY poor excuse chosen to refuse such applications.

111Robin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:01 pm

Exminiman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:34 pm

Bitsilly wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:23 pm Until l this is sorted I will never take a car to a show of any kind because you never know who might be there with a camera and a chip on their shoulder.

Not thought of that…..could make Bewlieeeee interesting

I doubt very much they will be sending the "hole police" out anytime soon. I really think this is being blown out of proportion a bit.

The “hole Police” now that sounds an interesting occupation

Bitsilly - can you replace the battery box in your car and use an existing (albeit perhaps inconvenient) hole to route the cables? In other words, is replacing a panel (battery box in this case) professionally done an acceptable repair to DVLA?

I doubt very much they will be sending the "hole police" out anytime soon. I really think this is being blown out of proportion a bit.
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Yeah, I used to think that.

winabbey wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:33 am Bitsilly - can you replace the battery box in your car and use an existing (albeit perhaps inconvenient) hole to route the cables? In other words, is replacing a panel (battery box in this case) professionally done an acceptable repair to DVLA?

Afraid not. Because the welding has to be done after the hole is drilled they have specifically forbidden it, hence my comment that I was sadly unable to weld the hole before it was drilled. Oh how they laughed!

Having read the Hagerty article and some of the comments posted by other readers, it sounds like the DVLA take a dim view of the kinds of restorations many of us have undertaken on our cars. How confident is everyone here that should the DVLA find evidence (like photos here) of the lengths many of us go to with replacing entire floor assemblies, that they wouldn't withdraw the logbooks in the same way they've done with Ed's 1960?

I personally think I'll remove my build thread and any other public photos of the surgery my car has undergone. I've yet to attempt a CC change (with the original engine number..) on my car, and I don't think I'll trouble them with this info now, not after reading this..

^^ I wouldn't worry.

My own view is that DVLA are wanting discourage unwarranted DIY EV conversions on safety grounds.
If your EV battery catches fire in stop start traffic......

It's not this Mini that's the issue but the clowns bodging EV powertrains from one scrap car to another. Gov't and DVLA will have viewed the Youtube video I posted earlier and considered the fire risk.