mk1-forum.net

Not trying to go against the grain here (or pick a bone!), and this is the part I don't get here however, the patterns and casting methods for Aluminum vs Cast Iron are like chalk and cheese. I can't for the life of me see what they are hoping to achieve by casting this in Aluminum and then machining it. Even a CNC Program for machining it doesn't readily translate from Aluminum to Cast Iron.

Unless they are going to be offered in Aluminum (perhaps as well as Cast Iron ?), I'm just not seeing what they are proofing.

It's a wonderful bit of work for sure and there's been a shed load of cash and time invested in this, that's not at all lost on me. Dave Rosenthal and myself did look in to doing blocks in Aluminum a few years back, but at the end, we didn't see much of a worthwhile market for them.

swifty wrote:I've been told more like £1500 including vat ! .... At the end of the day it's a buisiness and they need them to sell , not sit on the shelf ... ken

Feck me thats cheap!

I thought so too! That is a LOT of work and development.

Could be an interesting set of options here:
cast iron head + cast iron block + alloy gearbox
alloy head + cast iron block + alloy gearbox
alloy head + alloy block + alloy gearbox
But I can see your point about the main bearing caps. Unless you use a 'ladder frame' this could be the weakest link.

Not trying to go against the grain here (or pick a bone!), and this is the part I don't get here however, the patterns and casting methods for Aluminum vs Cast Iron are like chalk and cheese. I can't for the life of me see what they are hoping to achieve by casting this in Aluminum and then machining it. Even a CNC Program for machining it doesn't readily translate from Aluminum to Cast Iron.

Unless they are going to be offered in Aluminum (perhaps as well as Cast Iron ?), I'm just not seeing what they are proofing.

It's a wonderful bit of work for sure and there's been a shed load of cash and time invested in this, that's not at all lost on me. Dave Rosenthal and myself did look in to doing blocks in Aluminum a few years back, but at the end, we didn't see much of a worthwhile market for them.[/quote]

Its a point, why not go straight for cast iron.......whats benefit in casting in aluminium first ?
Except it is cheaper to cast in aluminium..
Could the Aluminium cast be classed as a “promotional piece” ? Ie “Flying a kite”

Not trying to go against the grain here (or pick a bone!), and this is the part I don't get here however, the patterns and casting methods for Aluminum vs Cast Iron are like chalk and cheese. I can't for the life of me see what they are hoping to achieve by casting this in Aluminum and then machining it. Even a CNC Program for machining it doesn't readily translate from Aluminum to Cast Iron.

Unless they are going to be offered in Aluminum (perhaps as well as Cast Iron ?), I'm just not seeing what they are proofing.

It's a wonderful bit of work for sure and there's been a shed load of cash and time invested in this, that's not at all lost on me. Dave Rosenthal and myself did look in to doing blocks in Aluminum a few years back, but at the end, we didn't see much of a worthwhile market for them.[/quote]

Its a point, why not go straight for cast iron.......whats benefit in casting in aluminium first ?
Except it is cheaper to cast in aluminium..
Could the Aluminium cast be classed as a “promotional piece” ? Ie “Flying a kite”[/quote]


Cast Iron, especially on something as complex as a block is very difficult to cast, there are very few foundries in the UK that can do castings like this due to the complexity and the quality needed. No idea if sacrificial aluminium castings can be done off the patterns used for cast-iron.

Marks point about the strength required in the block to support a 3-main crank is spot on, you will also be relying on the gearbox to supply strength when currently its the other way round.

The motorsport market is going to be very limited for a Ali block, all the money is thrown at App K and Mig engines at £25k a pop, these will never be accepted in ali.

These will never be £1500 inc VAT? £2-3k surely, unless they think they will sell hundreds. Any idea how much a new Nick Swift FIA head is out of interest??

If there going to be 2 to 3 grand then it will still be worth using a old genuine block . I've got quite a number of S blocks that I've collected over the years . I'm sure you can still find a S block and have if bored etc , owing you about a grand or close . If you can't , then I'm really out of touch with prices .... ken

Im hearing around £2K but not sure whether that'll include Vat.

The Ford BDA successfully went from iron to alloy in 1972. They are virtually identical and the bits all swap over and you can use an alloy block in a Crossflow.

Costafortune wrote:The Ford BDA successfully went from iron to alloy in 1972. They are virtually identical and the bits all swap over and you can use an alloy block in a Crossflow.

5 bearings for crank might help, but maybe not, as its dealing with twice the power....has an ali a series block really not been tried before ?

Did this go anywhere or was it just flying a kite ?

...yes, there has already been an aluminium block prototype. This shot was taken at the Mini 40 festivities by Rover at Silverstone.

I'm sure BMC did one aswell. I think someone on here had one for sale years ago. Odd looking thing from memory.

If there are any doubters out there I can assure you that the Minispares S block is still moving on apace. Running prototypes should be about within the next 3 or 4 months & once they have been road run & tested to destruction they will be ready to move onto the production block.

These will be as has already been said more expensive than I originally quoted, but should be literally as good as new.

I guess that only time will tell.

PS. The Minispares one has nothing to do with the odd looking A+ style block above.

PPS. Yes, the factory did look into alloy blocks very seriously, I have posted a lot of info about them in the past. In the end the advantages of alloy were outweighed by the price.

Cheers for Update

Details of the BMC alloy block

http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk/web/alloya.pdf

mk1 wrote:Details of the BMC alloy block

http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk/web/alloya.pdf

Off topic but the pictures by Cresswell were one of the reasons I followed in his footsteps and became a technical illustrator

Off topic but the pictures by Cresswell were one of the reasons I followed in his footsteps and became a technical illustrator.

I have always loved technical drawings of all types. Some are a real work of art as far as I am concerned.

My favourite has always been Theo Page, someone who as far as you can tell didn't only draw cars from my favourite era but also knew absolutely everyone in period.





Le Mans in 1966 and featuring John Bolster [Technical Editor of Autosport] telling a filthy story to the amusement of Theo Page, in the white shirt, George Phillips, chief photographer, Gregor Grant, sitting down, Jabby Combac, foreign correspondent in flat cap, Jack Fairman, ex-F1 and Aston Martin driver, sitting next to GG.

There is a story which may be true, or perhaps not, but shows how different the world of F1 is these days:

Theo Page was invited to Coopers in the late '50s / early '60s to draw the new season's car for Autocar or Autosport, and of course, it wasn't anything like finished, but he drew what he could and 'filled in the blanks' as he saw fit.

Further into the build the mechanics ran into a problem over how to mount some of the ancillaries, and Owen Maddoc the designer wasn't around. Unsure how to proceed, but unable to afford the delay, one of the team came up with the bright idea of looking in the latest magazine, and they simply copied the drawing! Job done and the drawing of course became 'right'


Like mark, I also love engineering drawings and technical illustrations and have quite a random collection of 'blue prints' covering everything from racing cars, planes, signal boxes and buildings. I find them fascinating. There used to be a great thread on the Autosport Nostalgia Forum of cutaways with thousands of examples.

My own attempts show why I am no longer a product designer

Al

It appears to work!

https://fb.watch/5EyFDFPgrP/