mk1-forum.net

timmy201 wrote:

Kiwi Craig wrote:The Australian oil company Penrite makes a special oil for Classic Minis. It is 20W-50 with high Zinc, protects flat tappets and gives smooth gear changing. Comes in 5 litre container, so enough for an oil change(4 litre not enough). Quite expensive, but should be ok if made specially for Minis.
From what I have read, the low/no zinc in modern oils is a real problem for flat tappet engines. Seems oil companies are slowly realising this and are reintroducing high zinc products.
Would be good to hear members views on this zinc issue.

The HPR30 has more Zinc than the mini specific oil, it's thicker when hot and easier to find in store too.

HPR30 =0.153% Zinc
Mini Oil = 0.139% Zinc

You seem convinced about HPR30 but how is your gearbox going? I know it's crunching into second. Have you thought of trying a different oil?

And while the engine might stand the comtamination to a certain degree the gearbox suffers badly.

For me its cheap 20w50 and change it often like every 3000 miles.
The brand varies.
Most recent is has been Gulf classic which claims to have added zinc, but doesn't say how much..

Many Mpi mini's here and just about every 90's mini has had to restore their gearbox after that german company took over and recommended 15w40 to be used.
The few Mpi engines i've had a look in seems ok with it, the gearboxes not so.

Seamist Green 1100 wrote:

timmy201 wrote:

Kiwi Craig wrote:The Australian oil company Penrite makes a special oil for Classic Minis. It is 20W-50 with high Zinc, protects flat tappets and gives smooth gear changing. Comes in 5 litre container, so enough for an oil change(4 litre not enough). Quite expensive, but should be ok if made specially for Minis.
From what I have read, the low/no zinc in modern oils is a real problem for flat tappet engines. Seems oil companies are slowly realising this and are reintroducing high zinc products.
Would be good to hear members views on this zinc issue.

The HPR30 has more Zinc than the mini specific oil, it's thicker when hot and easier to find in store too.

HPR30 =0.153% Zinc
Mini Oil = 0.139% Zinc

You seem convinced about HPR30 but how is your gearbox going? I know it's crunching into second. Have you thought of trying a different oil?

I have thought about changing to a different type of oil at the next oil change as it's a cheap and easy thing to try. I've been really happy with the extra oil pressure the HPR has over all the previous oils I have tried. My engine struggled to get 20psi at a high idle but now it's ok.

My 2nd gear had a pre-existing condition, and possibly a 50 year old synchro that's never been changed. I think driving the car once with a faulty clutch did much more damage that the oil ever would.

I too use the HPR30. Have been for a long while now.

I did try Penrite's 'Classic Light' that they recommend for Minis, while good, I found the HPR30 better.

Spider wrote:I too use the HPR30. Have been for a long while now.

I did try Penrite's 'Classic Light' that they recommend for Minis, while good, I found the HPR30 better.

Just wondering how you define "better".

I really think there's a bit of a marketing hype on all of these "special" oils formulated for minis/A-series gearboxes (unless backed up by extensive testing including micro examination of components for surface degradation). Back in the day you had your car serviced regularly and used any 20w/50 oil and never had premature engine or gearbox wear and that's when using them as everyday cars. I'm not saying they are wrong in their theory of special additives for the gearbox, but I'm not convinced it's worth the extra, especially if you change it twice a year and only cover a relatively small mileage. Obviously if you're racing or generally hammering your engine/gearbox a superior "quality" oil is possibly worth using, but then you probably change the oil more often in that case so even then it's doubtful.

Totally agree with 111Robin (above) He's injected a good dose of what I call the bleedin' obvious into the thread.

I'll just add here to probably many of the comments already posted.

The engine itself is happier on a lighter oil, typically in the 15W40 range, however, what buggers that up for us is the compromise of having the gearbox running in the same oil. Two distinct applications trying to make use of the one oil.

mk1 wrote:

Spider wrote:I too use the HPR30. Have been for a long while now.

I did try Penrite's 'Classic Light' that they recommend for Minis, while good, I found the HPR30 better.

Just wondering how you define "better".

a better face

I was the engine builder and engineer in a MODSPORTS team racing an MG Midget (handy when they were made a few miles away I hasten to add....) and also agree with Spider that the fly in the ointment is using the same oil in gearbox, diff AND engine. The only lube problems we were semi-plagued with was the diff. We solved some of the diff problem with a magnetic probe pressed into a brass drain plug to scavenge any steel particles. Did the same to the box.

So with the mini configuration you have to run a compromised oil to allow the synchros to work properly (any other reason? Prevent oil leaks ). If you’re using a dog box could you use a uncompromising engine oil ie fully synthetic? Or are 20/50’s so advanced now it makes no odds?

Have used Valvoline VR1 20/50 for many many years , no problems with oil . back in the 'day' all My rally minis were run on Castrol R 40 , the smell was adictive . G

I used the silkolene R40 . It had an extra additive to stop waxing up?
Something that happened to Castrol R if left for a long time between changes. It still had the lovely smell and after stripping engine and dog box down after about 10 events , everything was as new.

yorkspv wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 4:59 pm So with the mini configuration you have to run a compromised oil to allow the synchros to work properly (any other reason? Prevent oil leaks ). If you’re using a dog box could you use a uncompromising engine oil ie fully synthetic? Or are 20/50’s so advanced now it makes no odds?

Anybody actually seen synchro problems running a synthetic?

I know Rob Selby was using something like this in his engines...

https://www.silkolene.com/motorcycle/4- ... 20w-50-xp/

with a massive improvement in gear wear.

I read a study done years ago about oil and the conclusion was that all oil starts out the same. The difference is in how quickly it degrades. Change the oil just like the people in Chicago vote for the mayor; early and often.

croc7 wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:34 pm I read a study done years ago about oil and the conclusion was that all oil starts out the same. The difference is in how quickly it degrades. Change the oil just like the people in Chicago vote for the mayor; early and often.

Hey, I take exception to that!

Hipwell wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 9:07 pm

yorkspv wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 4:59 pm So with the mini configuration you have to run a compromised oil to allow the synchros to work properly (any other reason? Prevent oil leaks ). If you’re using a dog box could you use a uncompromising engine oil ie fully synthetic? Or are 20/50’s so advanced now it makes no odds?

Anybody actually seen synchro problems running a synthetic?

I know Rob Selby was using something like this in his engines...

https://www.silkolene.com/motorcycle/4- ... 20w-50-xp/

with a massive improvement in gear wear.

I’ve just heard on several occasions that the synchros need a specific amount of friction to allow them to synchronise gear speed, too little friction and gear change is effected.