DVLA targeting Classic Cars?

[mk1coopers]

when my dads 1930's Rolls Royce was inspected after someone else built an entire replica of it and tried to claim the logbook for it the dvla came out to inspect my dads car

Blimey someone went to all that trouble (no doubt because of the value of the vehicle) then lost it all (I hope the 'new' one was broken up and they were locked up), that would never happen with a Mini.....................................................oh hang on wait a minute...............

Hopefully some sense will prevail on the draft criteria for the VHI, allowing original manufacturers / converters (or their authorised agents) to modify a car (even if it is a chassis or body mod) so that it is visually the same as a vehicle that was previously produced by them (the current problems at Aston Martins Works division spring to mind) should be allowed as the quality of the work *should* be of a high enough standard to be safe (in some cases better than the original with advances in materials)

I can see why they are trying to stop individuals modifying cars at home if they are cutting structural elements, but some people out there have fantastic skills to produce high quality vehicles for their own use.

[Supersonic]

Peter, I would echo what Rich has said. The English gentleman who inspected my friend’s car was in his early forties and knew his stuff without a doubt. He impressed my friend with his amicable friendly manner and his knowledge of BMC period cars. In my friend’s own words he was no gifted amateur. I’ve also a friend who works for the DVLA who is a member of this forum and what he does not know about Minis is not worth knowing you take it from me. It is this arrogant attitude of so called specialists in a number of clubs that has brought about this change which many believe is for the betterment of the whole classic vehicle scene.

Alan

[rich@minispares.com]

when my dads 1930's Rolls Royce was inspected after someone else built an entire replica of it and tried to claim the logbook for it the dvla came out to inspect my dads car

Blimey someone went to all that trouble (no doubt because of the value of the vehicle) then lost it all (I hope the 'new' one was broken up and they were locked up), that would never happen with a Mini.....................................................oh hang on wait a minute...............

the problem is that in pre war stuff people go though the chassis numbers looking for cars that have not been see for many years, then reapply for the paper work, then the real cars turn up, or get reimported, then the arguments start...

there are quite a few valuable W.O Bentleys and Rileys that have duplicate cars that exist in foreign climes... (actually, not too far from what seams to be happening with minis...) a few even have very specific clauses inserted into auction catalogues stating that other cars have claimed the i.d's

this had happened with the Rolls, it had been 'lost' in the USA since the 50's, so the guy in England thought that he was doing 'no harm' by building a 'tribute' (it was a experimental car, so reams of data on it and a very 'niche' car in the pre war RR world), then as he got further involved he just thought that applying for the V5 to be reissued would be harmless, it was an unfortunate coincidence that the real car was reimported back into the uk and my dad just happened to apply for the V5 at the same time. - the value of it was no more than a normal car, the guy was more interested in owning a rare experimental

my dad did actually get a very apologetic letter from the guy , from memory he just used the correct i.d on his car

our family also owns a very nice Riley that's pretty rare, one of a very few made, virtually all accounted for, with loads of fakes built (some good, some bad, some pretty honest, some bent as anything)

in between us going to view the car and us collecting it, someone else who had been to view the car had ripped the chassis number plate off the bulkhead - its fairly obvious that a replica will turn up with this attached to its bulkhead sooner or later!.

my dad has left the plate off, and the Riley club are well aware of what has happened to the original, so we wait to see when it reappears!

[Peter Laidler]

Yep, I'm not infallible of course and the thread was littered with irony and humour (sorry about that.....) and no one wants a load of crooks within the restoration/classic car business but I'm just talking from MY experience with the couple I've had dealings with thus far in my short sheltered life. One day someone will ask me about the Lotus Cortina and later my DVLA experience of total gobbledygook with SORN.......... I'm not a bent Bugatti owner nor capable of building a Roller replica (both simply cases of fraud and/or deception) but taking the total number of classic cars out there, both ON the road and OFF the road, pray tell, where are they going to get all of these examiners to inspect these thousands and thousands of cars out there - and that's just the Mini's!

To be honest Rich, even if he did get the log book for his fictitious car, when it came to push and shove, the real McCoy was STILL your car, still existed and remained legally yours, log book or no log book. It's like someone milking your bank account. If you never took the money out........

[IslandBlue66]

I get that the DVLA need to do something about the current situation, I understand why they are doing more checks.

What I can't understand is why they are continuing to allow the open sale of logbooks on ebay, gumtree etc.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/dsc/i.html?_saca ... book&rt=nc

On the first page there are several minis.....

The DVLA can already fine people up to £1000 for failing to inform them that a vehicle has been scrapped.... They just don't seem to be doing that.

It's unfortunate that an awful lot of people that do play by the rules will get all the hassle of dealing with an inspection.

[mk1coopers]

It's unfortunate that an awful lot of people that do play by the rules will get all the hassle of dealing with an inspection.

Unfortunately this always seems to be the case in life, a few people take thing to extreams (for profit / pride / bragging rights) and everyone gets penalised in the end

If Supersonics friendly DVLA forum member is reading all this he probably won't be able to comment, but it would be good if the points (over several threads) could be taken on board

Scrap the 15 % PtW ratio rule, replace it with allowing period / age related tuning as long as it all visually looks like it should and there's evidence (plenty of old magazines out there) that the parts were available, don't allow modern engines especially those from other manufacturers if the body has to be cut, if it can be fitted without cutting its fine, however you have to declare it and continue to MOT.

Make sure there's a rule in place so that if a vehicle isn't already exempt or currently MOT'd when the changes come in that the vehicle has to have some sort of check before it goes back on the road and gains exemption.

Allow changes to body's and chassis if they are period or age related and match a previous model that was produced (in small or large numbers), but make sure they are manufacturer approved or being done by the original designers or agents (difficult with lots of cars due to there age, especially coach built)

Will all this give cars with documented histories a further lift in value ?

I think we all want to enjoy our cars safely, but I can't see how trying to effectively retrospectively re-classify / potentially disadvantage vehicles with period engine tuning can be legal when (as far as I know) there has never been a law preventing such tuning

[davidscothorn]

http://www.sebringsprite.com/latestnews.html

On another subject, I have just received the latest copy of the FBHVC Newsletter and thought the following quote would be of interest...
"We are aware that many people have been confused by the potential use of existing DVLA rules, which is not now going to happen, into thinking this change relates to registration. May I emphasise most strongly that it does not. This is not only our view but is shared within DfT and DVLA. The worst thing that can happen to a historic vehicle which does not qualify as a VHI is that it has to undergo an MoT.”
It seems that not all modified vehicles will be Vehicles of Historic Interest, but they are "moving towards a fairly generic description of a substantial change, which will have the effect of meaning most historic vehicles will qualify."
And, "The Federation has agreed to be the custodian of an approved list of experts and we will be working to create a fair and equitable method of accession of experts onto the list." So to me that implies that if one is in doubt about the extent of one’s modifications, then consulting an expert may simply result in a modified car not being classed as a VHI but will still be a historic vehicle, albeit one requiring an MoT

[Thee Adder]

If i were to bring my 1961 CKD over to the UK from Australia, this has the original engine etc and has not been modified, could I apply for an age related plate or would it have to have the dreaded Q plate?

[mk1coopers]

I would have thought there would be no problem with getting an age related plate on a car like that

[wantafaster1]

45 mins on the phone this morning to Swansea, regarding a vehicle I've lost the log book for. I've an rf60, the new book has been mislaid somewhere, i have a tax disc and an mot from within the last 10 years, i have a sorn acknowledgment from 4 years ago, the current address same as old address, and they claim to have no record of this registration.

Seriously I'm bloody heartbroken I could cry.

[surfblue63]

Have you done a vehicle history check and an MoT check?

If your car turns up on there than they do have a record

https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

[rich@minispares.com]

45 mins on the phone this morning to Swansea, regarding a vehicle I've lost the log book for. I've an rf60, the new book has been mislaid somewhere, i have a tax disc and an mot from within the last 10 years, i have a sorn acknowledgment from 4 years ago, the current address same as old address, and they claim to have no record of this registration.

Seriously I'm bloody heartbroken I could cry.

sounds a bit strange, the only time cars vanish like this off the dvla is if they have been scrapped as the record becomes null

[wantafaster1]

Thanks Stuart, but it's not there. Like it's never existed, and they kept asking if i was giving the correct registration. So i have to join a club, get inspection, provide evidence etc etc.

Silly me making the assumption it was all computerised and it would be on the system. Well, it is on the system since they sent a sorn or tax reminder regularly up until recently.

[wantafaster1]

And, not being in the mainland just makes it a bigger pain.

[rich@minispares.com]

And, not being in the mainland just makes it a bigger pain.

this isnt a UK car thats ended up in NI thats had a reg swap is it?????

if so, not the first time ive heard of this.......

[wantafaster1]

Same registration since 1960. Never moved house in it's life.

[jerry]

Is there a way of finding a cars registration mark through DVLA by using just its chassis number?

[Pete]

Same registration since 1960. Never moved house in it's life.

You can rest assured mate that with the evidence/paperwork you have you'll definately get your V5 back. PMd you.

[wantafaster1]

Thanks Pete, i suppose it is better than finding out your reg is on another vehicle, as happened before. Renault Megan coupe my ass. Inside job at county hall i believe but never heard of a prosecution.

[Andrew1967]

Only issue is if its in bits and then you'd have to wait until it at least looked complete before you'd get a V5C, but as Pete says, you WILL get one either sooner or later.