Churchill Hydrolastic pump

[Time Bandit]

My old man had one of these...daft old bugger gave it away!!!

[winabbey]

Those wanting more information on acquiring, using and servicing the various types of hydrolastic pump used on BMC vehicles should read through this excellent article by Mark Paget who resides here in Australia.

http://www.amvcnsw.com.au/austin1800/WS ... lastic.pdf

[Peter Laidler]

I'm sure that a lot of the parts and seals used in these pumps will be standard off the shelf SAE stock sizes. Just a gut feeling that Churchill wouldn't have had special size seals etc etc made. I had the same 'problem' with an old 1 ton Tange-Epco(?) hydraulic jack. Once I'd stripped it and looked at the mechanics/hydraulics of it all I went to the local engineering suppliers and got the nearest O rings and seals etc etc and it works perfectly. Obviously, I let the wife get under the car first - as you do to test these things. The depression and pressure gauges are bog standard across the board bits probably available on ebay. DIN and SAE adaptors are readily available, Schrader hose connectors are standard fittings that use O rings.

I depressurised my system as best I could using my Mr Henry - it's a vacuum machine don't forget!

Great thread but the depression and pressure criteria of the system isn''t earth shattering is it?

[Daz1968]

If just inflating then one of these on a vat free day at machinemart will do the job, you may even be able to modify it to pump a vacuum, we use them for pipe and pressure vessel testing at work.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke- ... mp-ptp100/

I have an old hydrolastic pump but not used it for a long time and it has seized, hopefully can free it off for when my car is finished

[Peter Laidler]

If you lived near Oxford Daz, I'm sure we could fix it as a winter project! My friend had one that was seized and it was the crud in the old hydro fluid that had caused the probably easily repairable damage. One of these blokes who kept on telling you he was going to fix it '......one day' and when you mention it a year later, it's gone along with the half finished lovely 998 Cooper he was going to finish '......one day' Tosser! Oh well, you can't beat them all.

[Ronnie]

CCC Had an article in the 70's how to use your car inlet manifold with the use of some scrap yard parts do the job evacuating the hydrolastic system for you
I think it may be on the main site. If not let me know and I will sort a copy for anyone that likes tinkering.

[Tim]

CCC Had an article in the 70's how to use your car inlet manifold with the use of some scrap yard parts do the job evacuating the hydrolastic system for you
I think it may be on the main site. If not let me know and I will sort a copy for anyone that likes tinkering.

I've heard of faulty brake boosters doing that to the brake system

Tim

[geroch]

wrong site

[iain1967s]

The CCC article for the DIY vacuum pump is on the main site here:
http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk/CCC.PDF

I'm just about to start refurbishing a Churchill pump... rather a large pile of bits at the moment.

There is a good description of the pump internals and typical faults on the hydrangeas webpage: http://www.hydragas.co.uk/HydroService.pdf

[mk1]

Ha, ha, I have one that looks like that & one that is in one piece but doesn't work very well.

It is one of the few mechanical things that I have got to bits & just given up on.

Devilish thing.

[Peter Laidler]

I bet, somewhere on this forum is a bloke who has become a maestro at using, working on and mending these pumps. I wonder why he isn't offering his services to travel round and fix these wayward hydro pumps. There could be a good profit in it. Just like the bloke you phone up and comes along to fix your old power washer on-site (mines an old Warwick pump). Like IK said, most of the worn bits are the seals and gaskets etc etc and will be readily available from the specialist suppliers in imperial or the dreaded metric

[mk1]

Like IK said, most of the worn bits are the seals and gaskets etc etc and will be readily available from the specialist suppliers in imperial or the dreaded metric.

That's what I thought, but I came totally unstuck on the double seal on the pressure pump.

That's what ground me to a halt.

[111Robin]

There was a NOS service kit on eBay a while back but it went for daft money so I stopped bidding. Pressure side on mine works but the gauge is bypassed. Vacuum side hasn't worked for years. Wouldn't mind getting it fully operational again.

[Peter Laidler]

There will be a simple way around these hydro pump problems, there always is. It just needs a bit of in-depth problem solving. It's a shame Rob lives up in deepest Jockland and Mk1 lives up north somewhere, Daz lives somewhere else, so does Iain '67S. We all ought to convene somewhere. I'm sure that the illusive missing parts could be concocted using something else.......... You know the sort of thing where a not available imperial threaded part can be used by using an oversize metric threaded part can be used if you machine this and thread that and block up the secondary output thinggy..... You get my drift. I missed the perfect opportunity with my friends '.....I'm going to fix it one day' project pump that eventually went to the tip! Tosser!

[iain1967s]

After a quick inspection, the Churchill pump I recently disassembled seems at least to be complete except for the instructions plate which is missing from the top face.

Inside, apart from all the spider webs (a good sign that it's been dry stored) there is a little surface corrosion on the alloy/pot-metal parts, some furring/electrolytic corrosion at the copper to steel joints, an inch long crack in the plastic reservoir, and all of the rubber parts are all hardened of course due to many years of neglect.

I think I can fix all that... WD40 and a brass wire brush should sort out most of the corrosion issues. Not sure about what plastic the tank is made of yet - an epoxy such as Araldite/JB-Weld might work.

For the custom seals on the pump pistons that are NLA, the originals will need to be reused. Classic motorcycle restorers rejuvenate rubber parts by a week's soaking in rubbing alcohol + wintergreen oil mix (3:1 ratio). I've never tried that but it's worth a shot.

Anyway, it gives me something to tinker with in the basement during the long winter months

ps. I am in Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA (expat from Cambridge, UK)

[trevorhp]

Surely this cannot be a coincidence?
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-18G703-P ... B000S2PJ60

Any meeting up of the Hydro Pump Union should be in Cambridge MA but only in the summer

[Peter Laidler]

Unless you want pin-point authenticity the plastic tank should be simple fix unless it's a high pressure tank but I doubt it. There will be a local hydraulic pump that could be used as a replacement I'm sure I learned with my EPCO hydraulic jack that the fancy seals could easily be replicated by machining nylon bar and 'O' rings. As I said, the Imperial threaded bits....... Anyway, it's still working. Naturally I let wifey get under the car first of course. We've got a Cambridge here that was probably named after your Cambridge Mass. Iain.

To be honest I don't think Churchill went out of their way to complicate matters and would have used what was available off the shelf first. Just my view. Maybe we could have this Hydro Pump convention at your place............

['S'-type]

Before I realised there were so many old abandoned Churchills out there (joke), I cobbled this together for about £50. Idea nicked from the MG forum.

The joint between the flexi pipe and low loss valve is home made. I asked at Pirtek if they could make me a joint but they either couldn't or wouldn't. So it doesn't look very neat.

As you'd expect it can't evacuate the hydrolastic system but it works a treat when filling.

In reference to the use of master cylinders, I remember taking a hydro car for a pump-up at a local Mini 'experts' back in the 80s. I noticed they just used a kind of home made contraption of a mastercylinder on a base with a lever mechanism. They charged about £30. So armed with this knowledge next time I needed a re-fill I plumbed in a pipe from the master cylinder still in situ on a (scrap) Mini to the Schrader valve on another car and pumped it up that way. After that success I was planning on building my own portable set-up but never did until I discovered the version below on the MG forums.

I'm sure a Churchill is better but there's not a lot to go wrong with this simple 'fix'.

[mab01uk]

Another DIY pump solution is detailed in the link below on the Austin America website:-
Building your own hydrolastic suspension pump & service tools:
(scroll down)
http://members.tripod.com/austin_america/id63.html

[Peter Laidler]

S-type, you could have saved yourself a whole lot of money, time and effort by just buying a simple hydrolastic hand pump from Ebay. The maker has also incorporated a simple modification that I suggested to make use/life a bit easier. But really, it's not pumping fluid under pressure IN that is a problem of any sort, especially given the little pump I mentioned. It's getting the air in the system OUT or evacuating it. After all, you can compress any air remaining within the hydrolastic system and that's the last thing that you need!!!!!

You can sort-of evacuate the system by adapting a powerful vacuum cleaner (it\s a vacuum don't forget...) to it, via a catch tank (for the remaining fluid) and........... anyway....., it works. Alas, I'm banned from using our Mr Henry vacuum cleaner after setting fire to the last one! But that's another sad story. What we're about is fixing the old Churchill cabinets.

I firmly believe that a major cause of problems now is the fact that the cabinets and cabinet users still in use just recycle old fluid time and time again until it needs topping up and then - again and again and so on. I am minded to suggest that each drain down, evacuation the tank should be emptied somehow, discarded, tank sloshed out clean and refilled with new fluid THEN the system refilled. More time consuming, yes. More expensive, yes. Better in practice, yes. Just my view and readily accept being told I'm talking crap and to get a life

Incidentally, that little lo-loss valve that you're using isn't necessary. If you use a standard screw-on schrader threaded end connector, just screw it onto the hydrolastic schrader valve loosely. Pump the handle to clear the air out of the line and as soon as you see the green fluid oozing out of the schrader valve connector at the valve, tighten the connector up finger tight. This shows that the fluid feed line if free of air and you can pump away until your hearts content and the car is at the right height