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I realise that I am one of the people who has looked at this (perfectly valid) project a bit sniffily.

This is not because I have no interest in the history of these cars (although I have to admit, that i am not particularly bothered nowadays) it is simply because I have seen, read & heard so much bullshit about Abingdon cars over the years that I have become cynical about the motives of pretty much anyone who is remotely interested in them. This is compounded by the claim to be making a "definitive" list, when it is inevitable that many people will undoubtedly disagree violently with much of the "definitive" information recorded.

Looking at the Works car world in general I am sure I am not the only person who thinks, "how soon will it be before some confection is crow bared into this new definitive list" to add to it's dubious history.

This IS NOT because I suspect the motives of the people involved, it is because I am naturally suspicious of ANYTHING where these cars are concerned.

Reading books like Pete Brownings (forgers Bible) The Works Minis & other publications gives many details of these cars & what happened to them, & regardless of whether the info contained either in these books or anywhere else is correct or not it will be used as is or vehemently disputed to try & uphold any old bullshit story that someone is trying to hang onto another "newly found" red & white Mini.

Mark, many thanks for taking the time to honestly write your thoughts in your comprehensive post. I’m very much in your ship and let me say why. My Mini background was circuit racing and red and white cars never imprested me one bit. If you want to know my difficulty and why this irritates me it is clear cut. I’ve good friends who own totally genuine ex-works cars and their fantastic cars now have been questioned because of the action of a few criminals who should know the truth will always surface. The surprising thing for me is all the people involved in this fraudulence activity are all affiliated to a club which claims to police this subject.

Alan

You're spot on Alan
That's why I am no longer a member of that club .
If you can build a genuine car from a boot lid there's not much more you can say !

I love this forum so much and the honest people who use it. I was born on 10 October 1988 and will never own a works car but please don't treat me as a fool. Mark, alan and JohnA thank you for being so honest on this subject.

Turbo88 wrote:I love this forum so much and the honest people who use it. I was born on 10 October 1988 and will never own a works car but please don't treat me as a fool. Mark, alan and JohnA thank you for being so honest on this subject.

Thank you for your kind comments Turbo88 much appreciated

Alan

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_cust ... ustodes%3F

mk1 wrote:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_cust ... ustodes%3F

When the custodes are self appointed, everyone else must.

Nicking my quote in a magazine article from about 25 years ago, which was aimed at the MSC/MSA.

Nicking my quote in a magazine article from about 25 years ago, which was aimed at the MSC/MSA.

Ha, ha, it's an oldie but a goody.

Actually not your's or mine, it was the Roman poet Juvenal (1st Century AD) from his Satires (Satire VI, lines 347–348).

I appreciate the views stated on this forum but I think a duty lies with those WITH THE KNOWLEDGE to tell what they know. I accept it is an almost unsolvable conundrum with all the things the works did to the cars let alone what has gone on since. I have a genuine interest in these cars as I am sure many people do and I would like to know what happened to them at Abingdon and what has happened since.

Do it now guys or at least try to because one day it will be too late.

Just my two penny worth!

Cheers

Brian

Ps in my opinion a works mini is a car built at the works so RJB 326F, OBL 46F, YMO885J, and YMO 886J are works minis. The latter being the last works mini. .....wait for replies!!

That list of cars were all works built so by description were works cars.

A pic of OBL 45F, looked great this car and URX 560G, this got rolled into a ball though didn't it a few years later?



Going off what a couple of people I know have said who are into their works stuff the works parts on Ebay were missed by many! They only came up here really due to the final value (£500!) of those quick lift brackets!

Great pic of OBL Pete, I hadn't seen that one before. Thanks for posting. Cheers Brian

Is this a different OBL 45F though ?......Different sumpguard.......bonnet strap in a different position...????.....quicklift brackets are visible though....

Even though the above shot shows the central bonnet strap, when you look at the TDF car the plug for the lamps is in a different spot.

Good old interweb - bet they never thoughback in the day when they were ringing the fakes but its all coming out

Pad

I may have got this wrong so please correct me. OBL led a pretty chequered life both at the works and afterwards. The above photos were with Roger Platt driving although Tom Seal was the co driver on the Welsh,no 46. I doubt whether that shell ran again although no 82 on the RAC looks pretty rough (RAC before Welsh? When Tom Seal had it the car was blue, pretty patriotic then its been red white and blue. I have the auction spec from the 2008. Classic Car Auctions Centaur!!?? It was on split Webers then but with 8 Port head and cam included. Anyone know where it has been since? Did we not see it on one of those car restorations programmes? Fascinating, why I love ex works minis especially mark 2s Cheers. Brian

VKA305H wrote:I may have got this wrong so please correct me. OBL led a pretty chequered life both at the works and afterwards. The above photos were with Roger Platt driving although Tom Seal was the co driver on the Welsh,no 46. I doubt whether that shell ran again although no 82 on the RAC looks pretty rough (RAC before Welsh? When Tom Seal had it the car was blue, pretty patriotic then its been red white and blue. I have the auction spec from the 2008. Classic Car Auctions Centaur!!?? It was on split Webers then but with 8 Port head and cam included. Anyone know where it has been since? Did we not see it on one of those car restorations programmes? Fascinating, why I love ex works minis especially mark 2s Cheers.
Brian

Pretty much tells its story here :
https://handh.co.uk/buy/1967-austin-mini-cooper-s/6866


Did we see it on Car SOS in the back of Ronnie Whites garage on the Sebring Sprite edition ?

Tom came on here and told the OBL story from his side a while back, I'll see if I can find it!

billycooper wrote: Did we see it on Car SOS in the back of Ronnie Whites garage on the Sebring Sprite edition ?

Yep, on some rather awful looking wolfrace style wheels

spoon.450 wrote:Is this a different OBL 45F though ?......Different sumpguard.......bonnet strap in a different position...????.....quicklift brackets are visible though....

This is what Tom Seal had to say previously on here :

I would like to know who took this photo because I would like to see them,this photo is 43 years old,1973 Welsh and the stage we rolled on was Hafren I think. When preparing the car we were in Group 5 class and this meant we had to have dual line master cylinder which split the braking front and rear, so having bought a brand new one from AP Racing, who were in Leamington Spa in those days, off we went to the Welsh. About 6 miles into the stage, Roger said the front brakes were pumping up we kept going until we were doing a 3 times over barrel roll, we got out of the stage and this when the photo was taken, to find one front brake disc was missing 1/4 of its face, the pads had filled the gap and over we went. When I returned the master cylinder to AP they stripped it and told me a cirlip had broken and this was what caused it to pump up, hands in the air, bad luck no offer of compensation. I then had the shell repaired and did the Scottish that same year, broke 3 hydrolastic units, and finally the RAC with Roger. Sold the car in '74 marriage and children took the money instead. The body shell did have a hard life. Tom Seal.