Modern distributors and new parts in general

[BLT]

Thanks Daz. Thing is ....Distributor Doc is knocking on £325 for a refurb, £250 if you bring your own. CSI is £250. Repro from Accuspark & co is £50. Is option one really worth £275 extra, will a repro do £275 worth of damage? They all look the same. Money no object I'd go for the first option yes, but does look expensive. Need to start saving my pocket money. Cheers.

[Spider]

I read on another forum where someone had bought a reproduction dissy from Accuspark. Coming from a company like them, I would have thought it would have actually been curved to suit xyz engine, but apparently not! It was just another 'lucky dip' one.

Are you looking for a dissy that looks period correct (as well as having the right curve)? or just one that's right for the engine?

Another UK Base company who maybe worse trying is H & H Ignitions. I have no experience with them, however an experienced friend has used them a lot over the years and has been very happy with them.

[ianh1968]

There can be no such thing as a distributor which is "curved to suit your engine"
unless you have told the builder exactly what you want. And this, of course,
assumes that you are expert enough to know exactly what you want, or more
correctly, your engine's curve requirement which is suitable for the whole package
that is being used.

Take for example an engine I ran for many years, 1380cc, LCB, 285/286 type
cam, 'S' sized valves, etc a fairly common spec...
Aldon produced their "Yellow" which was supposed to be for this type of configuration.

Aldon's own dyno proved this to be totally wide of the mark when I had my car
up there on the first occasion. The curve I came away with was nothing like a
"Yellow", in fact, it wasn't much like "Red" either, but was based on "Red".

Seamingly minor things can make a lot of difference to the curve required by
an engine - Some are historical, like the differences in fuel as has been previously
noted. A "different" needle will require a different shaped curve, leaner needles
needing more advance to work properly.

Spider has provided a photo of what can happen when there is not enough
advance at part throttle. I have had the same happen in one of my own engines
and this engine was set up correctly on Aldon'srolling road, no less...

This is my version:

ExValve.jpg

What was the problem? Well - The rolling road was used for full-power and the
centrifugal advance was set to achieve this for the then combination of parts,
primarily the cam duration vs. the compression ratio. Was it becasue the
distributor being used at the time had NO VACUUM facility and there was not
enough advance at cruise? Now, I am not an expert on either needles,
or timing, but I could not understand at the time what had gone wrong with
my very carefully set up engine.

It was only seeing Spider's photo several years later, along with the reasoning
that this was caused by "not-enough-advance/too-much-retard" at part-throttle
that made me put two and two together. As well as making an engine much
nicer to drive, a vacuum advance may well prevent distruction due to
plasma-cut valves.

My parting words on this thread will be:
1) If you change your distributor cap more often than you change your pants,
like Rich says, it's probably best to use one which has a cheap/Lucas-type cap.

2) You will not likely be able to "buy" a single-curve distributor with the correct
curve in it for your engine. (Unless they are going to put YOUR engine on a dyno
and sort it all out for you, which is a bit difficult by mail-order).
In my mind, this option is totally pointless.

3) The best solution will be a fully programmable system, but these are more
expensive than either the fixed curve variety or the switchable variety.
eg 123, Amethyst etc. 123 is self-contained, Amethyst is a remote box.

4) A "minimal" upgrade would be something like the "Aldon Ignitor", which I have
used myself, or something similar which retains the original case and advance
mechanism. Others are available, eg Luminition.

5) Somewhere between the two would be getting a switchable distributor,
typically having 16 pre-programmed curves to choose from.
eg 123, CSI
This would be a very good "second best" option.

6) On a road car, always consider using a vacuum. There are people that
say that they drive "flat out all the time" on the road, but this is total bullsh!t.

7) Always use a dyno - For a switchable or programmable system, the
differences in the results will be instantly visible. It's extremely satisfying
to do a power run, spend 5 minutes on changing the curve, then doing
another run and finding that you may get a 1-1.5Bhp difference in power
for each degree of timing change. Start low, then go up...

You can check a single curve distributor on a dyno, but you will be limited
in only being able to swing the whole curve up or down. If you find that
it's great at the bottom with 'X' degrees, but needs a twist to give best
power, you will soon be wishing that you'd spent slightly more money and
had a bit more choice.

My latest dyno session cost me £10 per horse-power gained...
You can easily spend £500 on a decent head and benefit much less.

8) Consider my concept of using "weak" fuel during setup, ie 10% 95
with 90% 97 octane. If someone wants to overrule this, please do so.
The idea is that if the engine is configured to run on "96.8" octane,
there will be a detonation buffer of 0.2 octane to allow for any variables
which affect our "non-engine-managed" engines.

Ian

[BLT]

"Are you looking for a dissy that looks period correct (as well as having the right curve)? or just one that's right for the engine?"

It's more important that it's right for the engine than how it looks. But if I can get one that looks correct as well then it's a bonus.

Anyway, thanks to you all for your advice, but can I simply ask what your choice would be, given all the permutations?

Cheers

[ianh1968]

<SNIP>but can I simply ask what your choice would be,

We have all stated our favourites and reasons why already...

To save going round and round and round and round in circles:

ianh1968: Has two 123/Tunes and thinks they are great. He does not care about the
price or quick availability of the caps and rotor arms. He has used a dyno to set both
the mixture and timing.

Rich: Well, Rich goes grass-tracking and likes the CSI because when a cap gets smashed
they are two-a-penny to replace. If he's used all his own up, he can "ponce" one from
someone else in the paddock.

olfrjf: Has the same as Rich and reckons it's perfect for him.

Spider: Has used CSI distributors and reckons that "H & H" would be worth looking at.
He has also used "Accuspark", but this might be fiddly to set up. Spider also points out
that part-throttle advance or lack-thereof can kill an engine.

Matt_Tupman: Has used an Aldon Amethyst and is pleased with it.

ianh1968 and Daz1968: Have both used Aldon(Pertronix) Ingitor kits and think that they are OK.

Daz1968 also reckons that an Amethyst set up on a dyno would be best, but thinks that
"a stock distributor recurred by the distributor doctor" would come close.
ianh1968, ever the cynic, does not believe it possible for a distributor to be re-curved
accurately without the supplier actually dynoing the engine.

carbon: Has pointed out that the "official" curves were designed for the fuel available
50 years ago, so choosing by the original numbers is largely redundant anyway.

BLT, you will need to make your own decision - We can't give you a definitive answer
on what YOU should use. We can only detail our own opinions and experiences.

Maybe you need to wait until someone who is "always right about everything" comes
along and instructs you forcibly to buy an "xyz" product, purely because they say so?


Ian

[BLT]

Hmm. Well that's me told. No supper and straight to bed.

At the end of the day its a stock 998cc Cooper using modern fuel. Quite straightforward. As such I thought there may be a consensus. Instead, as much as I appreciate the opinions, I am none the wiser, other than they all work to some degree.

Cheers

[Spider]

OK,,,, probably if it were me, I'd go for the Accuspark Stealth unit, punch in a stock curve and go from there.

No half decent solution will be cheap.

A Cheap solution is likely a shit one.

Supper? Nope. I've had yours.

[BLT]

Thanks. You can have my supper

Anyone else got a 998? If so then what did you do? Guessing if it works on one then it will for another.

[Daz1968]

Unless you are after getting the last bit of efficiency from the engine then if you are using a standard cooper cam then I see nothing wrong with a standard 998 cooper 40955f, checked over to ensure working ok rebuilt if required then fit an aldon igniter or similar to remove the hassle of points, the next upgrade form this would be a csi distributor selecting the nearest curve, then if you want the ultimate an amethyst set up on a rolling road, I will be going with the first option,

[STG95F]

Same as i did Daz on My Mk2 . Worked just fine .

[BLT]

Thanks fellas. I sold my 40955F because it was the wrong date. Got very little chance of finding another. An unfortunate consequence of this obsession with 'correct dates'. Lesson learnt. So assuming I can't get another, I'll go for the CSI and best fit curve. Other option is one rebuilt and stamped, but at over £350 I have to draw the line. It's a stock 998 Cooper for gods sake, not some fine tuned race machine 'S'. I think the need for rolling roads and laptops is over the top. CSI seems a good compromise. Once again thanks all, great advice and much appreciated. I think it's made it clear there are numerous options, all of which will work

[wantafaster1]

I bet there is something else about with the same curve, what we all need is a big book of distributors.

[BLT]

That's what I thought and still think. Just researching this has shown how many different ones Lucas made, not just for BMC but everyone else too. There are dozens for the mini alone. Surely they can't all be that different from each other? There is a guide to mini distributor codes on mini mania, but not much else. I never thought it would be so complicated. Anyway...........

[ianh1968]

No half decent solution will be cheap.
A Cheap solution is likely a shit one.

... very wise words, indeed!

Here's one I made earlier... It's a 998cc Cooper, with the genuine
raised 'D' pistons. This was before I took engine configuration
seriously, when I didn't bother to use a dyno and I used "cheap"
distributors, because "they all look the same, don't they...".

998Cooper01.jpg

998Cooper02.jpg

I still didn't learn with the next engine I built which sort of went the same way:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11735&hilit=imp&start=30

The engine I built after that got dyno'd and a custom curve, but still ended
up with problems, (see plasma-cut valve above), probably due to having
no vacuum advance.

The right curve is most definitely the priority, the electronics just makes it easier to
achieve that curve and enhances accuracy.

I bet there is something else about with the same curve,
what we all need is a big book of distributors.

For what it's worth, here's the data I have on timing:

I've re-sorted these by "123 curve number" as opposed to "Lucas Part Number" so it will be easier to see the comparative engine specs.

Code: Select all

           Advance      Advance     Maximum
Curve    500-1000rpm*  @ 2000rpm*  @ 5000rpm*
  0         10,0          14,5         28
  1         10,0          16,7         28
  2         10,0          18,4         28
  3         10,0          20,2         28
  4         10,0          16,3         30
  5         10,0          17,6         30
  6         10,0          19,4         30
  7         10,0          21,1         30
  8         10,0          16,2         32
  9         10,0          18,1         32
  A         10,0          20,3         32
  B         10,0          22,9         32
  C         10,0          17,0         34
  D         10,0          20,4         34
  E         10,0          22,1         34
  F         10,0          23,9         34
* degrees advance and engine speed both relate to the crankshaft

vacuum-advance  0 to 14 degrees from 5 to 10 inch Hg
vacuum-advance  0 to 14 degrees from 83.1 kP to 66.1 kP

41419 0  1970-80 1275 non S Mini, 1973-79 Austin Allegro 1300 HC,1969-74 Austin 1300 HC Automatic, 1970-74 Austin 1300 France, 1969-73 Austin 1300 Princess including automatic
41404 0  998 Mini (Canada) 1975-80, 1974 onward Leyland (SA) 1.3 van, 1974-77 Morris Marina 1.3, 1975-78 Morris 1.3 HC
41030 0  Mini 1000 Saloon, clubman and Estate, 998 cc,
41257 2  1275 non S Mini, Austin 1300 HC and automatic late
41214 2  1275 non S Mini, Austin 1300 HC and automatic, Riley Kestrel 1000, Wolseley 1300 and Vanden Plas Princess 1300, MG 1300 Automatic
42535 2  Minis with engine number 12A2BG01, 12A2BG03, 12A2BG05.
40774 3  997 Mini Cooper HC
41410 4  1970-73 Austin 850 LC, 998 Mini automatic, 850 van and pickup, 1976-78 Morris Marina 1.8 GT and HL
41882 4  Metro 998, Minis with engine number 99Hxx, 1988- onwards.
40931 4  Mini early including Wolseley Hornet and Riley Elf
42626 4  Minis with engine number 12HD09, 12HD10, 12HD11, 12HD12, 12HD13, 12HD21, 12HD22, 1984-86 Austin 1.3 L and HLE
42627 4  Minis with engine number 12HD17, 12HD24, 1986 onward 1.3 Vanden Plas, 1984 onward MG Metro
42635 4  Minis with engine number 12HD25
41570 5  850 Mini, van and pickup
41254 5  998 Mini 72 to 74 including Wolseley Hornet and Riley Elf
41412 5  Austin 1000 Mini automatic and Clubman, 1975 Authi Mini 1000
42681 6  Minis with engine number 12HE48, 12HE25
42628 7  Minis with engine number 12HD26(AA) 1984 onward MG Metro turbo
41418 8  Mini 1000 and Mini Clubman, Saloon and variants, 998 cc, manual and auto, Allegro 1.1
41417 A  1969 Austin 850 Mini automatic, 1976-80 Austin 850 Mini, 1970-80 Austin 1000 Mini automatic, 1976-80 Austin 850 van and pickup, 1970-77 Austin 1100 Automatic,
41134 A  850 and 998 Mini Automatic including Riley Elf and Wolseley Hornet, 1100 automatic
41251 A  850 and 998 Mini Automatic including Wolseley Hornet and Riley Elf
41242 A  850 and 998 Mini automatic, Vandel Plas Princess 1300 and Wolseley 1300 twin carb
41045 A  998 mini Early Model High Compression
42630 A  Minis with engine number 12HC17AA, 12HD18
41057 B  998 mini Late Model High Compression
41212 B  Mini 1000 and Mini Clubman, Saloon and variants, 998 cc,
41246 B  Mini 1000 and Mini Clubman, Saloon and variants, 998 cc, 1972-74: Mini Clubman 1100, 1098 cc, Allegro 1100
41411 B  Mini 850 Saloon and variants, 848 cc
41858 B  Minis with engine number 12HC18AA, 12HC19(AA), 12HD20(AA) 12HE41, 12HE42, 1984 onward Austin Metro 1.3 van, 1981 onward Morris 440, 575 Van and Pickup 1.3
40979 B  Works special for Rally Mini's
40767 C  848 Mini UK Vehicles Regular Fuel
41007 C  848 Mini UK Vehicles Regular Fuel
41532 C  998 Mini (Canada)
40819 C  Mini Cooper S Mk III, 1275 cc
41250 C  Mini Moke, van and pickup, later models
40899 C  Minor, Van and Pickup, 1098 mini Low Compression
41255 D  998 Mini Cooper, late
41938 D  Minis with engine number 12HC09AA, 12HC10AA, 12HD14(AA) 12HD15(AA), 1983-84 Austin Metro 1.3 HLE
41026 E  848 Mini UK Vehicles Premium Fuel
41033 E  Mini Cooper S Mk III, 1275 cc
40768 F  850 Mini
40941 F  850 mini Late Model High Compression
40873 F  997 Mini Cooper LC
41032 F* 998 Mini Cooper HC, 1971-75 Morris Marina 1.8 TC
40955 F* 998 Mini Cooper High Compression
41031 F* 998 Mini Cooper LC
40958 F* 998 Mini Cooper LC and special order for low grade fuel
41249 F  Later Minis and Moke
41569 F* Mini 850 Saloon and variants, 848 cc
* These engines require more maximum advance than the 123/Mini can provide, but curve F should allow the engine to operate well.

Note: These are all crankshaft RPM and are as per "123" - I expect that Spider has some CSI figures...

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics...

"Dyno Virgins" please note:
"Don't mock it 'til you've tried it..."

Ian

[1071 S]

There can be no such thing as a distributor which is "curved to suit your engine"
unless you have told the builder exactly what you want.

IMHO, this is a real curate's egg statement. Of course there are "curves to suit your engine" ... if you make it so (or have it done by a competent specialist:). The problem is "unless you have told the builder.." How do you know what you want?

And this, of course,
assumes that you are expert enough to know exactly what you want, or more
correctly, your engine's curve requirement which is suitable for the whole package
that is being used.

I don't think you can "know" what is required.... It has to be discovered... by test on the dyno.

Take for example an engine I ran for many years, 1380cc, LCB, 285/286 type
cam, 'S' sized valves, etc a fairly common spec...
Aldon produced their "Yellow" which was supposed to be for this type of configuration.

Aldon's own dyno proved this to be totally wide of the mark when I had my car
up there on the first occasion. The curve I came away with was nothing like a
"Yellow", in fact, it wasn't much like "Red" either, but was based on "Red".

Seamingly minor things can make a lot of difference to the curve required by
an engine - Some are historical, like the differences in fuel as has been previously
noted. A "different" needle will require a different shaped curve, leaner needles
needing more advance to work properly.

And this is exactly the issue... and my experience. Aldon's supposed expert analysis of my engine spec and subsequent "custom" curve (built into a brand new Yellow) wasn't worth a hill of beans once tested in the real engine.. But then, with a new dizzie, it didn't take long for my Guru to build a new curve based on the engine's performance/requirements.

Spider has provided a photo of what can happen when there is not enough
advance at part throttle. I have had the same happen in one of my own engines
and this engine was set up correctly on Aldon'srolling road, no less...

I am very suspicious of this conclusion. Burning gasses passing the exhaust valve means unburnt fuel -- which will cool the valves - not the opposite. Just because two conditions exist ... burnt valves and inadequate advance... doesn't show a causitive relationship.

This is my version:

ExValve.jpg

What was the problem? Well - The rolling road was used for full-power and the
centrifugal advance was set to achieve this for the then combination of parts,
primarily the cam duration vs. the compression ratio. Was it becasue the
distributor being used at the time had NO VACUUM facility and there was not
enough advance at cruise?

Many engines, all standard Cooper S for example, run inadequate advance at cruise. This can be easilly proved by adding a vacuum advance. The only observable difference with my engine was a significant improvement in fuel consumption - measured out at around 30%...

Now, I am not an expert on either needles,
or timing, but I could not understand at the time what had gone wrong with
my very carefully set up engine.

It was only seeing Spider's photo several years later, along with the reasoning
that this was caused by "not-enough-advance/too-much-retard" at part-throttle
that made me put two and two together. As well as making an engine much
nicer to drive,

Can't see how?? As soon as you put your foot down the vac vanishes and you are running on the "non-vacuum" curve?? The extra advance really only occurs at constant speed with a part closed throttle....

a vacuum advance may well prevent distruction due to
plasma-cut valves.

My parting words on this thread will be:
1) If you change your distributor cap more often than you change your pants,
like Rich says, it's probably best to use one which has a cheap/Lucas-type cap.

2) You will not likely be able to "buy" a single-curve distributor with the correct
curve in it for your engine.

Totally agree. At best, you can hope that the vendor has enough expertise to sell you something close... didn't work for me though.

(Unless they are going to put YOUR engine on a dyno
and sort it all out for you, which is a bit difficult by mail-order).
In my mind, this option is totally pointless.

3) The best solution will be a fully programmable system, but these are more
expensive than either the fixed curve variety or the switchable variety.
eg 123, Amethyst etc. 123 is self-contained, Amethyst is a remote box.

4) A "minimal" upgrade would be something like the "Aldon Ignitor", which I have
used myself, or something similar which retains the original case and advance
mechanism. Others are available, eg Luminition.

IMHO, their only benefit over a properly operating points is "maintainability". After 20 years using a Piranha IR system, I've gone back to points - only because the Piranha failed ..at least i think it failed.. Unlike points, troubleshooting really comes down to complete replacement.

5) Somewhere between the two would be getting a switchable distributor,
typically having 16 pre-programmed curves to choose from.
eg 123, CSI
This would be a very good "second best" option.

6) On a road car, always consider using a vacuum. There are people that
say that they drive "flat out all the time" on the road, but this is total bullsh!t.

Tick

7) Always use a dyno - For a switchable or programmable system, the
differences in the results will be instantly visible. It's extremely satisfying
to do a power run, spend 5 minutes on changing the curve, then doing
another run and finding that you may get a 1-1.5Bhp difference in power
for each degree of timing change. Start low, then go up...

The optimum - but really scary way - is to lock the dizzie and run the engine up to max power at, say, 1000 rpm steps, measuring the required advance at each point. Then you take the dizzie to bench and 'install' the approximately correct curve. Unfortunately, even then approximately is as close as you can get; clockwork dizzies are not as adjustable as required ... Which is where the electronic advance systems come in..

I haven't tried it yet but I think an air/fuel sensor combined with electronic ignition timing could be used to optimise timing on the road thereby avoiding the dyno.. Can you buy "bolt on" knock sensors???

You can check a single curve distributor on a dyno, but you will be limited
in only being able to swing the whole curve up or down. If you find that
it's great at the bottom with 'X' degrees, but needs a twist to give best
power, you will soon be wishing that you'd spent slightly more money and
had a bit more choice.

My latest dyno session cost me £10 per horse-power gained...
You can easily spend £500 on a decent head and benefit much less.

8) Consider my concept of using "weak" fuel during setup, ie 10% 95
with 90% 97 octane. If someone wants to overrule this, please do so.
The idea is that if the engine is configured to run on "96.8" octane,
there will be a detonation buffer of 0.2 octane to allow for any variables
which affect our "non-engine-managed" engines.

Too dodgy IMHO and difficult to maintain consistency. Just set the engine up as you mean to use it. This will include winding back the "on-the-edge" advance that you may determine on the dyno...

Cheers, (another:) Ian

Ian

[Smiffy]

Was gonna quote and correct the some of the errors in that essay, but changed my mind (remembered who i'd be dealing with) and will offer a little friendly advice.
Stick to a rolling road/dyno it'll be cheaper in the long run………...

[ianh1968]

IMHO, this is a real curate's egg statement. Of course there are "curves to suit your engine"
... if you make it so (or have it done by a competent specialist:).
The problem is "unless you have told the builder.." How do you know what you want?
<SNIP>
I don't think you can "know" what is required.... It has to be discovered... by test on the dyno.

I agree with you entirely - The whole point here was that you would need to use a dyno to
establish the curve in the first instance. Once this has been worked out, you then "know" the curve
and you either program it, or else have a curve "built" by someone that knows how to do this.

<SNIP>
And this is exactly the issue... and my experience. Aldon's supposed expert analysis of my engine spec and subsequent "custom" curve (built into a brand new Yellow)
wasn't worth a hill of beans once tested in the real engine.. But then, with a new dizzie, it didn't take long for my Guru to build a new curve based on the engine's performance/requirements.

Again, any "supposed expert analysis" is totally null-and-void unless the person(s)
doing the analysis are using a dyno and proper equipment. Desktop/Remote/Forum-based
analysis of an engine that you are not physically working on is a total waste of time.

Spider has provided a photo of what can happen when there is not enough
advance at part throttle.<SNIP>

I am very suspicious of this conclusion. Burning gasses passing the exhaust valve means unburnt fuel -- which will cool the valves - not the opposite. Just because two conditions exist ... burnt valves and inadequate advance... doesn't show a causitive relationship.

I'll let you two argue the toss over this one -
Suffice to say, since I've been running a vacuum setup, I've had no more problems with burnt valves.
I am quite happy to admit that I am ignorant on the technical side of this part of the discussion.

My gut feeling, though, is that leaner mixtures such as those typically used at cruise, take longer to
burn and this is the reason why they need igniting earlier. If they are NOT ignited earlier, then
combustion will still be taking place when the exhaust is being pumped out of the engine on the
exhaust stroke - Result = Hotter exhaust valves? Maybe?

<SNIP>

Many engines, all standard Cooper S for example, run inadequate advance at cruise. This can be easilly proved by adding a vacuum advance.
The only observable difference with my engine was a significant improvement in fuel consumption -
measured out at around 30%...

Again, totally agreed and exactly the point that I was making. Using a distributor with no vacuum on a road car for
"fashionable" reasons is a pointless no-no. If all the differences are beneficial, surely with the price of fuel being so high,
a vacuum enabled distributor is a must.

8) Consider my concept of using "weak" fuel during setup, ie 10% 95 with 90% 97 octane.<SNIP>

Too dodgy IMHO and difficult to maintain consistency.

Fair comment - Personally, I'm still going to do it, though...
It can't be detrimental, surely?

Was gonna quote and correct the some of the errors in that essay,
but changed my mind (remembered who i'd be dealing with) and will offer a little friendly advice.
Stick to a rolling road/dyno it'll be cheaper in the long run………...

A bit of a change of tune, here, folks!

At one time, there was someone on this forum that was able to tell someone else exactly
how to time in their engine, knowing only the engine capacity and the body style of the
distributor (or was it the carb?).

The answer, in case you're interested, is 16 degrees at 1200RPM.

If I have made any "mistakes" in any "essay" that I post, I would be more than happy to have
them corrected.
Don't just say:
"you're wrong, but I ain't gonna say where, or why...
(because everyone knows that I am way smarter than you)".

The whole point of "most of the above" is that you cannot guess at settings,
you need some decent equipment which will almost certainly in include use
of a dyno.

Ian
I'M BORED NOW

[Spider]

Ian, IMO, you've got that very well nailed.

Here's the pre-programmed CSI Curves;-

http://www.csi-ignition.nl/bestanden/mi ... 0-1275.pdf

http://www.csi-ignition.nl/bestanden/mi ... curves.pdf

I bet there is something else about with the same curve, what we all need is a big book of distributors.

I have listings on about 3000 to 4000 Lucas dissys (curves and vac advance), no problem there.

What we need though is some 21st Century way of comparing curves.

[Smiffy]

The answer, in case you're interested, is 16 degrees at 1200RPM.

Really gets your goat that my instructions worked for mk1mini doesn't it………………..

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9119

[ianh1968]

No, not really - Thanks for reminding me of the link...

I've just re-read the whole thing and found it totally hilarious.
I'd seriously recommend that everyone here also reads it and
then comes to their own conclusions as to the quality and total
lack of reasoning with some of the "instructions".

See also this post, which was a sort of follow up:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9182
... and this one...
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9189

I expect that there will be "more to come", but I'll not bother to
make a reply - Smiffy, I'll let you have the last word...

Ian
NO MORE POSTS WILL BE FORTHCOMING FROM ME!