Replacing a roof skin..

[Mini-geek]

Has anybody on here replaced a roof skin? Im going to do it by replacing just the skin (not the cutting at the pillars method,

I have a 'new' skin attached to an old frame.. I thought they were just spot welded.. But this one looks to be roll welded (a continues spot weld) am I right about this?? If so how did you remove it?

Any advice apart from the obvious bracing etc.. would be greatly received..

[rich@minispares.com]

they are roller welded on, so its a fair mission to grind it all off and reweld it

the best method is to cut the old roof skin off and leave a 2" lip, then bond the new skin on using the correct automotive panel bond.

the big advantage is that you wont have to paint the car as there is no damage to the paint below the gutter, its quick and strong.

welding them is a real job as its difficult not to damage the rain gutter

[swifty]

Your better off fitting a new skin . Yes I know there pricey but worth it in the end . The easy bit it welding it on if you've got a spot welder with the right arms . The hard bit is cleaning up the old skin witch I do with a pencil file and 4 inch hard grinding wheel used on its side . Done a few now .... Ken

[Mini-geek]

Cheers.. I'm not buying a new roof.. I'm not that bothered about it.. I'm only doing this as I have a sunroof in..

I will give it a go removing the new skin from the frame, if I can do it I will chop the old one out..

I will probably use the structural panal bond along with spot welds.. Or I will convince someone else to do it for me...

[Ollie78]

I did it once, back when scrap minis were available and I had loads of time and no money (now I have none of either). I bought scrap car with a half decent roof for £50 then cut the roof off at the pillars and then began the job of cutting and grinding away carefully until all that remained was the roof skin. I cut the old roof off and completely ground away the old skin into the gutters then paid a body shop to spot weld it together for me as I didn't have a spot welder.
It takes ages, its quite tricky as well as you could tin foil your replacement skin by over grinding and neighbour relations will suffer if you have any.
I didn't brace my car, possibly should have, the car was not rusty but it had a grotty webasto.
Like Ken said a better option is probably to buy a new roof skin and if you look at photos of his work you will see he knows what he's talking about.

[nick@dunsdale]

i dont think there is any need to brace a mini when removing the roof skin, all the strength is in the A , B and C pillars, and the cantrails are still in place, very short car as well

When you take into account the size of a full length webasto there is not a lot of roof skin left, doesn't affect those cars.

As for fitting either method is fine as rich mentioned though you could save considerable paintwork by going down the bonding method, if you were doing a full paint job wouldnt matter i suppose

[Mini-geek]

Cheers for the advice..

I'm going to leave it for next winter now, I'm going to do it by the leaving a lip and bonding it on method...

[swifty]

Over the winter have a good think about it . It's one of those things that people do to minis as a easy way out . Glue- in a roof on a mini ! PLEASE. ..... Ken

[Smiffy]

Over the winter have a good think about it . It's one of those things that people do to minis as a easy way out . Glue- in a roof on a mini ! PLEASE. ..... Ken

Exactly, no wonder those twatt's in the eu want to stop us working on our cars.

[rich@minispares.com]

Over the winter have a good think about it . It's one of those things that people do to minis as a easy way out . Glue- in a roof on a mini ! PLEASE. ..... Ken

Exactly, no wonder those twatt's in the eu want to stop us working on our cars.

a roof that is correctly glued on will be far better attached than one that has been mig'd on in blobs by some bloke in a garage with a hobby welder... ....

the roofs where originally welded on with a roller spot welded - so the weld was virtually continuous......

..I don't know any 'hobby-restorer' who has one of those in their garage........


ive glued them onto race cars using bonding adhesive before, and they take some getting off again....or if your doing a road car you can use the proper (expensive) 3m panel adhesive - after all, its good enough for most car makers now......

[Mini-geek]

I think you're worrying over nothing..

Before you both criticise what I'm doing you should consider what glues are avalible, I'm not using prickstick.. There are many very strong bonding adhesives.. For starters we have windscreen bond, this is very strong and flexible, (I think this will be good enough anyway) then there are the two part structural adhesives as used in vehicle production and the car body repair industry.. This is what I will be using.. And will be stronger than it was to start with..

But cheers for the advice..

[Dean]

when i did my roof, i tiger seal it on. and made sure i had about 30-40 welding clamps to hand. then just left it clamped for a few days

i made sure both surfaces were bare metal, and also made sure i had full coverage with the glue.

works a treat

[swifty]

You sound like my brother . He'd ask for your opinion then because he didn't like the answer he'd start a argument / fight... I gave you my opinion as someone who's been repairing cars as my day to day living for 34 years and counting . Go ahead and glue your roof on . I've also heard you can pop rivet your front wings on as well , bit of p38 in the joins , job done . Marvellous , carry on . It's gotta be easier than welding . ... The cars that are designed to be bonded have had millions of pounds of factory money go into the design and crash tested as such . These people who give advise on glueing/ bonding a roof on , what do they do do for a living , are they , shop keepers , window cleaners , bus drivers ? . If a jobs worth doing , do it properly . Great example , look at Ollie's thread on his project . The man is a stone mason , but he's got the sense to take advise .. Ken

[Mini-geek]

It's not that I don't like the answer, it's that your reason makes no sense to me.. If you're in the trade then you'll know all about bonding panels on with structural adhesive instead of welding as advised in many insurance/thatcham repair prosses in mainstream bodyshops..

Cheers for your advice but you haven't back up why binding a skin on won't work..

After all it's a track car.. Will only have an MOT to meet regs, the roll cage will replace any strength lost.. Don't stress yourself over it.. It probably will never get done as my current work load means I've not got room for it in the garage and it is back at the storage unit..

Anyway I'm done with this..

[Tim]

I'm not sure that they were all roller welded. I think that was a UK only thing. Remember that one of the rationales (excuses?) for the external seams was to make assembly of CKD kits simpler in overseas countries. Typically the seams were welded with conventional spot welding equipment. Something that is possible at home.

Tim

[mk1]

All original UK built MK1's were roller welded, I don't know about CKD kits. Later on in the UK they went on to spot welding to save time & money. Look at the Heritage shells produced nowadays, these have about 20 spots in total!

I know very responsible, respected & insurance approved body shops who "glue" Mini roof's on when they need replacing. If it is done correctly I am assured that it is both stronger & more water proof than spot welds, particularly when these are only placed every few inches.

As with most jobs, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Some people like one way, others another. It doesn't mean that one method is better than another, it just means people choose to solve a problem in a different way.

[Smiffy]

This is so funny, modern cars are not constructed like the mini. A modern car with it's glued on panels is not a true monocoque, instead there made using a unitary design. These use box sections, bulkheads and tubes to make a strong inner shell. A inner pod if you like that will keep the occupants safe in the event of a accident, the external panels are stuck on the outside and don't provide any strength or protection at all.

Imagine your in a accident and someones seriously hurt, the VIB inspect the mini and find it's been stuck together. What do you think will happen to you ? First off the insurance company will disown you and then the magistrates will send you somewhere you'd better not bend over in the shower to pick the soap up.

[rich@minispares.com]

This is so funny, modern cars are not constructed like the mini. A modern car with it's glued on panels is not a true monocoque, instead there made using a unitary design. These use box sections, bulkheads and tubes to make a strong inner shell. A inner pod if you like that will keep the occupants safe in the event of a accident, the external panels are stuck on the outside and don't provide any strength or protection at all.

Imagine your in a accident and someones seriously hurt, the VIB inspect the mini and find it's been stuck together. What do you think will happen to you ? First off the insurance company will disown you and then the magistrates will send you somewhere you'd better not bend over in the shower to pick the soap up.

so, everyone better stop welding patches and replacement panels on in their garages then...........or fitting beam axles or other non factory parts.....wont someone think of the children!!!


im bailing out of this argument and looking forwards to either carousal or a dose of soylent blue.....


ive glued a roof onto a car that was barrel rolled and the roof was fine (we just kicked it back into a 'roof' shape, and the car did another couple of rounds before it was peeled off and another roof was stuck back on - the roof didn't suffer from any 'peel' or any problems

[Smiffy]

so, everyone better stop welding patches and replacement panels on in their garages then...........or fitting beam axles or other non factory parts.....wont someone think of the children!!!

LMAO, roll cage *removed by moderator*

im bailing out of this argument and looking forwards to either carousal or a dose of soylent blue.....

Usually what happens

ive glued a roof onto a car that was barrel rolled and the roof was fine (we just kicked it back into a 'roof' shape, and the car did another couple of rounds before it was peeled off and another roof was stuck back on - the roof didn't suffer from any 'peel' or any problems

It had a roll cage, i.e. a inner pod to keep you safe..........

[swifty]

I've never personally come across a insurance company that would allow the glueing- on of a roof skin on a mini . There was a golden rule with all the insurance assessors I've dealt with. If the damaged car had damage in front of the suspension point / leg / turret , and the repair cost was not more than 60% of the value of the car , then they may allow a repair by the said garage whichever came in with the cheapest estimate . Now on the other end of the scale if the damage was after the suspension point / leg / turret and involving a kink in the roof or bulkhead then it would be written off and end up in a salvage yard . The cars today that have bonded on panels ie wings 1/4 panels , roof skins are designed with a tub / safety cell in mind , with the panels on the outside to crumble on impact . , to absorb inertia . A classic mini has not be designed with this in mind and as such I would never recommend the glueing- on of a roof skin . ... Anyway I hope I may explained my opinion a bit better now .... Mini geek if your making a track day car with a multi point roll cage fitted then in effect your also making a a tub safety cell. So from that point of view may be ok to glue a roof skin on .... Ken