John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
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John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Daytona, Florida 1967
I have recently added this Mini to the garage. In May I was at an annual swap meet and car show I attend every year in central Pennsylvania where I was talking to a man who spoke of a Downton car he had for sale. I talked to him in years past and he would mention the car, but I figured it was a Downton conversion on a street car. This year he was mentioning it being for sale, had some pictures on his camera and also a binder full of letters from Richard Miles (Downton, London) Ltd. After looking at the pictures, I took some time to read through the letters. I was quite taken by what I had read and saw and figured I needed to do something about it. I have been into the Mini scene in the States for quite a while now and have never seen anything quite like it. The man thought the original owner must have raced the car at some point, probably in New York since that is where its paperwork was from. He was never able to find any pictures or racing history of the car.
Within a couple of days, I received a nice group of pictures from the man. I sent them off to Mark for a second opinion, and he seemed to think the car was genuine. By Friday, I had enlisted my dad to go on a 1000 mile round trip with trailer in tow to look at this Mini. We brought the Mini home, and I have been doing a lot of research since. I soon learned that the original owner had quite a racing resumé. I found the original owner’s contact information, so I sent him a letter with some pictures. I was quite fortunate that he got the letter and is still doing well. I got to speak to him on the phone for a bit. He even went up to his attic and dug up a pile of treasures and sent them to me, with even more Downton letters and original photographs. It answered nearly all my questions. The letters, totaling about 50 pages, start off from the car’s initial order in December 1966 through most of its races and activities, until November of 1968, when Richard Miles left the company. JC kept copies of the letters he sent so you get both sides of the conversations. I will be adding more about the history of the car and owner soon.
To get started here is some information about the car.
• Full Group 2 1293cc FIA Appendix J car prepared for racing.
• Original Downton paint work, as requested by JC, never hit, rusted or repainted.
• 14,300 original miles
• Never disassembled, original car mostly as raced in 1967, 1968 and 1969
• JC asked his friend and fellow BMC teammate, Andrew Hedges, to order and oversee the build of this Downton Mini.
• Mechanic suggested a MK 2 versus MK 1 Limited Slip Differential and have a 3.9 installed.
• JC heard a “Restall” driver seat is good.
• Order initiated December 5th, 1966
• Richard Miles (Downton London) Ltd. had secured a Home Market Morris Cooper S from White Lodge Garage, a dealer with whom they were close friends. B.M.C. Export agreed to transfer to export allocation.
• The car was white with a black roof, Downton re-sprayed the roof white and painted a blue stripe to comply with American racing colors
• One item JC emphasized is “the car should be ready to win when I receive it.”
• The car was set up and tested at Brands Hatch
• Car was shipped on the Lulua, left London on April 19th, 1967
• Car was picked up on May 5th in New York City
• Had to install a roll bar inside car
• Had to put a scatter shield in, screwed a bulletproof vest to the floor and firewall
• JC, “standing order for anything that will improve the car.
•Currently engine is detuned a bit, different head and HS2 carbs are fitted.
Andy and Rachel Nelson's Paddock June 2014 Mid Ohio. The 45 and 68 car raced together at Daytona in 67. We did not know at the time but the 45 and 52 car raced together at Cumberland Airfield in May of 1967.
Last edited by Johnny on Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Magnificent, a treasure!
Mini's don't rust................Downunder!
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Welcome to the board Johnny! A remarkable car which also has some fantastic paperwork behind it! You certainly don't come across cars like this in this condition over here and just to clarify for readers that maybe don't realise : the first owner John Colgate is indeed of Colgate toothpaste fame.
Looking forward to more.
Looking forward to more.
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Colgate fame that's why the car is so bright, what a good findPete wrote:Welcome to the board Johnny! A remarkable car which also has some fantastic paperwork behind it! You certainly don't come across cars like this in this condition over here and just to clarify for readers that maybe don't realise : the first owner John Colgate is indeed of Colgate toothpaste fame.
Looking forward to more.
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Thank you for the positive remarks.
Here is some information and a biography for John Colgate.
“John Colgate grew up driving old American cars with friends around the sand dunes of Long Island. His first car, a MGTD, led him to appreciate sports cars culminating with his first ‘real’ car, an Austin Healey 100-M. John and his 100-M raced at Lime Rock, Bridgehampton, and Watkins Glen throughout the late 50’s.
“His steady driving and consistent ability to finish every race brought him to the attention of the BMC distributor in New York. John joined the BMC-Team Healey effort after being a successful SCCA campaigner in his Austin Healey 100-M.
“He left the BMC team in 1960, but continued to race Austin Healeys for Donald Healey, most notably at Sebring with the 3000 MKI now owned by Bill Bolton. Later he drove Mini Coopers and retired from active racing to pursue his personal business that include owning the largest independent Mercedes Benz dealership (Silver Star Motors) in the metro New York City area.
“Eventually John returned to racing when he participated in the Skip Barber Formula Ford series. A year later he competed in four races at Lime Rock."
John Colgate is also “descended from William Colgate, who in the early 19th century founded a soap, starch and candle concern, which became the Colgate-Palmolive Company.”
Source: Austin Healey Sprite Jubilee, featured speaker biography
Some of John Colgate's race results can be found here.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/ ... e-USA.html
John was involved with the introduction of the Mini Cooper in 1961. Operation 850 June 7 1961 Lime Rock Park.
One of seven drivers who participated in BMC sponsored demonstration race of Austin 850s and Austin Coopers. The field of race drivers included Innes Ireland, Pedro Rodriguez,
Denise McCluggage, Juan Manuel Fangio, and John Colgate.
Here is a youtube video from event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xNU5_iZH7A
In one of John Colgate's Sebring appearances in 1962 he Co-drove with Steve McQueen in a Sebring Sprite. Lead class for 7 hours. DNF engine failure. McQueen’s performance led to an offer from BMC to race professionally for them.
http://www.mcqueenonline.com/sebring1962.htm
Here is some information and a biography for John Colgate.
“John Colgate grew up driving old American cars with friends around the sand dunes of Long Island. His first car, a MGTD, led him to appreciate sports cars culminating with his first ‘real’ car, an Austin Healey 100-M. John and his 100-M raced at Lime Rock, Bridgehampton, and Watkins Glen throughout the late 50’s.
“His steady driving and consistent ability to finish every race brought him to the attention of the BMC distributor in New York. John joined the BMC-Team Healey effort after being a successful SCCA campaigner in his Austin Healey 100-M.
“He left the BMC team in 1960, but continued to race Austin Healeys for Donald Healey, most notably at Sebring with the 3000 MKI now owned by Bill Bolton. Later he drove Mini Coopers and retired from active racing to pursue his personal business that include owning the largest independent Mercedes Benz dealership (Silver Star Motors) in the metro New York City area.
“Eventually John returned to racing when he participated in the Skip Barber Formula Ford series. A year later he competed in four races at Lime Rock."
John Colgate is also “descended from William Colgate, who in the early 19th century founded a soap, starch and candle concern, which became the Colgate-Palmolive Company.”
Source: Austin Healey Sprite Jubilee, featured speaker biography
Some of John Colgate's race results can be found here.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/ ... e-USA.html
John was involved with the introduction of the Mini Cooper in 1961. Operation 850 June 7 1961 Lime Rock Park.
One of seven drivers who participated in BMC sponsored demonstration race of Austin 850s and Austin Coopers. The field of race drivers included Innes Ireland, Pedro Rodriguez,
Denise McCluggage, Juan Manuel Fangio, and John Colgate.
Here is a youtube video from event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xNU5_iZH7A
In one of John Colgate's Sebring appearances in 1962 he Co-drove with Steve McQueen in a Sebring Sprite. Lead class for 7 hours. DNF engine failure. McQueen’s performance led to an offer from BMC to race professionally for them.
http://www.mcqueenonline.com/sebring1962.htm
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Woaw - what a car - and what a history - LOVE it
thanks for posting (and welcome inhere)
Jens Christian
thanks for posting (and welcome inhere)
Jens Christian
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
O my, what real treasure to own. Tanks for the pictures and story .
DOWNTON Mini is what I like a lot.
Collecting 60th wooden steeringwheels.
Collecting 60th wooden steeringwheels.
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
that's a beautiful car with some great patina.
well done on its purchase!
well done on its purchase!
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
The Minilites have been painted like the Radfords had 'em, not surprising with the Miles connection.
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Race History 1967
So far I have come up with the car running in 9 races from 1967-1969. John Colgate ordered the car to run the 1967 season in the SCCA. The class was C Sedan. This class was for cars between 1000cc to 1300cc. They followed the FIA Appendix J Group II rules. The SCCA was divided up into 7 divisions. Being that JC lived in New York, he ran in the NorthEast division. Each division had 8 or 9 races for points. The top 3 cars from each division would meet at the end of the season for the ARRC or American Road Race of Champions race. In 1967 the ARRC race was at Daytona.
First race was May 13 1967. Cumberland Airfield, Maryland Steel Cities Region. This was the week after the car arrived. The car finished 1st and set a new track record.
Halfway through the race Colgate was leading by 9 seconds, then the clutch began to slip. He won by 50 feet. The second place car was Andy and Rachel’s 129 LNP driven by Chuck Dietrich. They determined that the clutch was slipping due to improper installation.
Second Race July 4 1967. Lime Rock, Northern New Jersey Region.
1st place, set Track Record.
Third Race July 15 1967. Bridgehampton, New York Region.
1st place, set Track record.
Forth race August 19 1967. Watkins Glen.
1st Place, set Track record.
With four 1st place finishes, the NorthEast Division was won and a trip to the ARRC race in Daytona was secured.
Fifth Race November 26 1967 Daytona, Florida. ARRC race. DNF. Broken rocker, finished 8 laps of 35.
Here are some pictures from the Daytona trip.
So far I have come up with the car running in 9 races from 1967-1969. John Colgate ordered the car to run the 1967 season in the SCCA. The class was C Sedan. This class was for cars between 1000cc to 1300cc. They followed the FIA Appendix J Group II rules. The SCCA was divided up into 7 divisions. Being that JC lived in New York, he ran in the NorthEast division. Each division had 8 or 9 races for points. The top 3 cars from each division would meet at the end of the season for the ARRC or American Road Race of Champions race. In 1967 the ARRC race was at Daytona.
First race was May 13 1967. Cumberland Airfield, Maryland Steel Cities Region. This was the week after the car arrived. The car finished 1st and set a new track record.
Halfway through the race Colgate was leading by 9 seconds, then the clutch began to slip. He won by 50 feet. The second place car was Andy and Rachel’s 129 LNP driven by Chuck Dietrich. They determined that the clutch was slipping due to improper installation.
Second Race July 4 1967. Lime Rock, Northern New Jersey Region.
1st place, set Track Record.
Third Race July 15 1967. Bridgehampton, New York Region.
1st place, set Track record.
Forth race August 19 1967. Watkins Glen.
1st Place, set Track record.
With four 1st place finishes, the NorthEast Division was won and a trip to the ARRC race in Daytona was secured.
Fifth Race November 26 1967 Daytona, Florida. ARRC race. DNF. Broken rocker, finished 8 laps of 35.
Here are some pictures from the Daytona trip.
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Now thats history love it .
He even had a Volvo 122 as tow car
He even had a Volvo 122 as tow car
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Wow! What a find . My skin has turned a weird green colour
As already said, we don't find anything like that in the UK...
As already said, we don't find anything like that in the UK...
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
This car is absolutely amazing. A true survivor of the era!
What makes it unique is the amount of historical information available from the first owner (who fortunately retained the documentation), and the incredible original condition that it is in. Having seen the car and many of the documents and pictures in person, I can honestly say that this is one of the very few cars in the US or Canada that have this level of provenance. It was an honor and a pleasure to have Johnny paddock with us at the Can-Am Mini Challenge, and so special to have the car included in our ARRC Group Photo shoot. Everyone at the race was blown away by this car.
For me personally, the thrill of having these three cars that all raced together 47 years ago sharing the same paddock spot again was beyond epic! Johnny has a fantastic car here and had done it the justice it deserves by assembling the history and preserving this very important race Mini in it's original condition.
Thanks for sharing it with us!
What makes it unique is the amount of historical information available from the first owner (who fortunately retained the documentation), and the incredible original condition that it is in. Having seen the car and many of the documents and pictures in person, I can honestly say that this is one of the very few cars in the US or Canada that have this level of provenance. It was an honor and a pleasure to have Johnny paddock with us at the Can-Am Mini Challenge, and so special to have the car included in our ARRC Group Photo shoot. Everyone at the race was blown away by this car.
For me personally, the thrill of having these three cars that all raced together 47 years ago sharing the same paddock spot again was beyond epic! Johnny has a fantastic car here and had done it the justice it deserves by assembling the history and preserving this very important race Mini in it's original condition.
Thanks for sharing it with us!
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Fantastic car Great provenance a true survivor!!
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
Thank you for all the compliments, it has been a lot of fun doing the digging and research.
Thank you Flygirl. The Can-Am Challenge was surreal. The thought of those 3 cars being together is so very special.
Race History 1968
There is much discussion about what to do for the 1968 season. One thought was to buy a new car, Keith Cundell, sales manager, and Richard Miles seem to be pushing for that option. Later after the rocker failure at Daytona, there was discussion of shipping the engine back to London for a rebuild.
Keith also had suggestions of fitting fibre glass panels, bonnet, boot, wings, and possibly doors. Then cutting away wheel arches, floor panels, and inner wings to reduce weight. Thankfully, these options were not chosen.
What they did was replaced the rocker arms. The engine started right up. Then went racing. JC wrote of when Andrew Hedges was over they decided to run 3 to 4 races and hopefully obtain enough points to go to California. The ARRC race was at Riverside, California this year. They planned to get a new engine in the summer.
First Race May 12 1968 Cumberland Airfield
As quoted from Cumnerland Times Ma 14 1968. “In the first race of the day for C and D John Colgate Jr of Oyster Bay NY leaped out in front just as he did last year in racing to victory here. He breezed in the first two laps in his Morris Cooper but blew an engine in the third and was forced out.”
The engine had thrown a rod. Michael Pigneguy, the engine builder at Richard Miles (Downton-London) felt that the only possible cause could be that a big end bolt broke.
A new 1275 Cooper ‘S’ engine and gearbox unit from BMC was to be delivered to Richard Miles the next day. They were to start stripping and rebuilding to race specification immediately. Keith also ordered a full race large valve cylinder head for the new engine.
The new engine was air shipped and arrived June 25 1968.
Second Race July 06 or 20 1968 Lime Rock
Did not Finish. Broken exhaust Manifold.
Later in 1968 the car was fitted with 51/2” Minilite wheels and wide wing extensions, as suggested by Keith Cundell.
The last Richard Miles Downton letter is dated 14th November, 1968. Keith Cundell asks about how things are going. Keith gives an overview of their ex-works Austin Healey Sprite. He said they started and finished six long distance races in Europe. The ex-works Sprite had been sold and next years plans are very much up in the air. He also states that Richard Miles has left the company.
Thank you Flygirl. The Can-Am Challenge was surreal. The thought of those 3 cars being together is so very special.
Race History 1968
There is much discussion about what to do for the 1968 season. One thought was to buy a new car, Keith Cundell, sales manager, and Richard Miles seem to be pushing for that option. Later after the rocker failure at Daytona, there was discussion of shipping the engine back to London for a rebuild.
Keith also had suggestions of fitting fibre glass panels, bonnet, boot, wings, and possibly doors. Then cutting away wheel arches, floor panels, and inner wings to reduce weight. Thankfully, these options were not chosen.
What they did was replaced the rocker arms. The engine started right up. Then went racing. JC wrote of when Andrew Hedges was over they decided to run 3 to 4 races and hopefully obtain enough points to go to California. The ARRC race was at Riverside, California this year. They planned to get a new engine in the summer.
First Race May 12 1968 Cumberland Airfield
As quoted from Cumnerland Times Ma 14 1968. “In the first race of the day for C and D John Colgate Jr of Oyster Bay NY leaped out in front just as he did last year in racing to victory here. He breezed in the first two laps in his Morris Cooper but blew an engine in the third and was forced out.”
The engine had thrown a rod. Michael Pigneguy, the engine builder at Richard Miles (Downton-London) felt that the only possible cause could be that a big end bolt broke.
A new 1275 Cooper ‘S’ engine and gearbox unit from BMC was to be delivered to Richard Miles the next day. They were to start stripping and rebuilding to race specification immediately. Keith also ordered a full race large valve cylinder head for the new engine.
The new engine was air shipped and arrived June 25 1968.
Second Race July 06 or 20 1968 Lime Rock
Did not Finish. Broken exhaust Manifold.
Later in 1968 the car was fitted with 51/2” Minilite wheels and wide wing extensions, as suggested by Keith Cundell.
The last Richard Miles Downton letter is dated 14th November, 1968. Keith Cundell asks about how things are going. Keith gives an overview of their ex-works Austin Healey Sprite. He said they started and finished six long distance races in Europe. The ex-works Sprite had been sold and next years plans are very much up in the air. He also states that Richard Miles has left the company.
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
...Ditto that Jens... what a great thread.. ..I,m thinking of getting an old 850r to tow mine lol !!!.. a friend has a really nice one !!!!....rgds foxy52.JC T ONE wrote:Now thats history love it .
He even had a Volvo 122 as tow car
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Re: John Colgate's Timewarp 1967 Group II Downton Cooper S
As you say Miles/Cundell did offer Colgate a new 'up to date' 8 port race car for 1968, didn't look like he needed one? The paperwork is great, rare to find a car with paperwork like that.